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What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

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Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#101

I am a developer/hacker who spent 6 months in prison about a decade ago. They had a room of old broken computers that were donated and I offered to fix them up in exchange for increased library privileges. Normally inmates could only visit the library once a week and check out two books, but I read about 4 books a day during my time there. I fixed up the computers and supported them once they got a teacher, read my b…

You pretty much have to resign yourself to the fact that you'll work at 50% of the salary as your peers Have you considered working for an early-stage startup? It seems like your expected value may be higher, because even though your salary will still be low, you'll be vesting stock.

I have, but I'm the kind of developer who thinks up the big ideas and can build to 95% but I'm not great at grinding away at that last 5% of bugs. We're valuable, but by no means a rare breed.

The rarer breeds are the work-horses that you can throw the results of a QA check to and they work on everything to completion.

In startups, it's the founders that typically have the rights to do the planning and core development that I'm good at and delegate the last bits to subordinates. I don't have founder money and bootstraping "real" startups requires a lot more time than I have available with a family.

Small "4 hour work-week" startups are within reach. Currently my plan is to make 4 or 5 of them and move me and the family somewhere where the cost of living is so low that even a meager income from "side businesses" can be enough to live off of. We're actually flying down with the kids to scout out Antigua, Guatemala for a few weeks in January to see if it's a good fit for us. Also, my first 4-hour work week business (steamloader.com) is making on average 0.4 BTC a day so this seems like a realistic goal.

Ideally we could stay somewhere in the US, but we're being priced out of the Austin, TX area and if we have to move, we would love to move where our money is the most valuable. $50k (what I earn) is not much for a family of 4 to live on in Austin, but in Central America that income could give my kids a quality education and let us live more comfortably.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, I gave a ride to a couch-surfer that ended up committing a robbery. Instead of turning them in when I found out, I just kicked them out... but the police said that made me an accomplice so I went to prison for 6 months and was on probation for 10 years. I was charged as an adult, so it can't be sealed. Even if I managed to get the records expunged by donating enough money to $partyInPower, it wouldn't matt…

Wow, that sucks. Did you accept a plea bargain, or were you tried and convicted? If it was a plea bargain, did they start out at some kind of conspiracy charge to work you down to where it stopped?

It was a plea bargain. At the time, after 6 months of dealing with an overpowering sense of being crushed by the legal system, I just took the first plea bargain they offered me. It was the exact same deal they gave the person who actually committed the robbery.

The anxiety of not knowing what the future held made it seem to be a relief to just get things concluded. Also, as an 18-year-old, I wasn't thinking about my future 10 or 20 years in the future

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#103
I'm a hacker who served 4.5 months of a 9 month sentence 5 years ago. I was in two jails in that time, spending the majority of the time in the second, lower security place. The experience totally changed me, but in a positive way.

First of all, I actually had a lot of fun in jail. My education made certain aspects of the prison system very easy for me to navigate, such as legal documentation and debating with guards. My ability to mend broken electronics very quickly became known. These things made me feel very safe, since people were actively protecting me. It also made me feel quite important in the community.

It started when someone came to me and asked what I knew about mending mobile phones. In UK jails, many people have mobiles, usually obtained by over-the-fence smuggling. Pay-as-you-go credit vouchers are a major form of currency. This guy was very important on the wing - he had a crew of other guys who walked around with him and people often came to pay him. I said I knew enough about phones, and what did he want? He explained that someone had owed him money but couldn't pay. He'd taken the guy's phone as payment, but the phone was pin-locked and he couldn't get in. The phone was an old samsung, one which I knew (having previously owned one) didn't impose any limit on the number of pin attempts. So I told the guy: yeah, I know a few tricks. But I need to get my tools out so I'll do it overnight. (Note: I didn't have any tools). The guy left me with the phone overnight, and I sat up through the night to try all 10,000 possible 4-digit combinations. Thankfully, the correct code turned up in the mid 2000s. So the next day this guy turned up and was amazed that I had figured out the code. He went round telling everyone that I was some tech wizard and that people should always come to me with their problems. In return for the job he arranged for me to have a Playstation 2 in my cell for two weeks, and to get access to a phone whenever I wanted. For the rest of my time, people would bring me trivially broken electronics and I would retire for the evening to make it out like I was doing something difficult, then return the fixed item the next day. It massively increased my quality of life in there.

Secondly, it opened my eyes to how people less fortunate than me live their lives, and how terrible the prison system is for most people. Many, many people in jail were severely mentally ill. There was no support for them. Some were killed in jail, either by inmates or staff, because they flipped out and people got scared. Another large group of people were hopelessly addicted to very harmful drugs. People who exploited this group were the most powerful - they would have drugs smuggled in, then build an army of addicts who would do their bidding to get the next fix. It was a really explosive situation. Almost every act of violence was drug debt related. Immigrants were completely screwed in jail, because there was no way for them to navigate the bureaucracy. I helped several people avoid deportation, including one cell-mate who had a hit contract out on him in Jamaica because he defended his business when yardies tried to extort him. He couldn't read or write, so he couldn't fill out the asylum application. His patois was so strong that his lawyer couldn't really understand what he said, and the border agency was going to send him back to Jamaica to be killed. I wrote letters to the border agency, the prison governor and the home secretary and he was granted asylum and an interpreter was arranged so that his legal visits would be more productive. Hundreds of others in similar situations go without that help every year.

Thirdly, I saw some horrible things. For example: 'syruping' - when someone mixes sugar into a bucket of boiling water and dumps it on someone's face. The dissolved sugar makes the boiling water cling to the skin longer, and the skin peels off leaving the raw flesh exposed. I also saw someone held down by four guys, who performed anal surgery on him with a sharpened spoon to extract drugs he was hiding. He later maimed all four of his assailants, stabbing them in the neck with a pen (saw that too). Another was a guy who was clearly paranoid schizophrenic. His cell was opposite mine. He started screaming one night and barricaded himself in. He then stripped off and covered himself with baby oil, and started setting fire to his cell. The guards came in riot gear to tackle him, but he was so slippery it was like trying to catch an eel. He gave them the run around for quite a while before they eventually fired sedative darts into him and he collapsed screaming. He died in hospital.

Fourthly, I felt so ashamed of myself that I changed my life forever. I was a middle class white kid with a great education who got obsessed with hacking and document security as a teenager and went down for figuring out how to perfectly replicate the driving license, thus throwing away many of the advantages that luck, society and my parents had given me. Everyone else in there had no such advantages. Most of them were born to a life where poverty, drugs, violence and lack of education all being concentrated in their environment led to them being systematically channeled into prison. I was there essentially through misplaced intellectual curiosity, while others were there because their lives were so bad out of jail that crime was actually a rational survival choice. Society failed them, while it tried to hold me up with both hands. I was, and am, disgusted with myself. Upon leaving jail I learned programming, worked freelance to pay for my tuition while I got a degree, got a PhD, and am now working towards spending my life using my skills as efficiently as I can to improve the lives of as many people as possible. If I ever have a lazy moment, I just have to cast my mind back to prison, and the disgust with myself rises up again, and I launch myself back into work with an energy I never knew I had before prison.

Finally, I would say that my criminal record has not held me back. I no longer have to legally disclose it, but when I did I always did so with a letter explaining some of the circumstances and how deeply it had affected my life. I had several positive comments about my disclosure, and I have never been turned down for a job I've applied for. It doesn't have to hold you back - your attitude has to convince a potential employer that your background makes you a great candidate, not a worse one.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#104

I am a developer/hacker who spent 6 months in prison about a decade ago. They had a room of old broken computers that were donated and I offered to fix them up in exchange for increased library privileges. Normally inmates could only visit the library once a week and check out two books, but I read about 4 books a day during my time there. I fixed up the computers and supported them once they got a teacher, read my b…

> The obvious downside is that prison sticks to you for the rest of your life

What don't you move to Europe? There your US criminal records don't interest anybody - only in security relevant jobs. So just don't apply for jobs with banks, etc.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#105
post #81
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let me know what kind of developer you are. Can you PM me on Hacker News.

HN has no PM system. You'll have to give him an email.

treenyc can post his public-key in this thread, edw519 uses it to encrypt his email address and post the result in the thread. treenyc then uses his private-key to decrypt edw519's email.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, that sucks. Did you accept a plea bargain, or were you tried and convicted? If it was a plea bargain, did they start out at some kind of conspiracy charge to work you down to where it stopped?

It was a plea bargain. At the time, after 6 months of dealing with an overpowering sense of being crushed by the legal system, I just took the first plea bargain they offered me. It was the exact same deal they gave the person who actually committed the robbery. The anxiety of not knowing what the future held made it seem to be a relief to just get things concluded. Also, as an 18-year-old, I wasn't thinking about my…

That is really terrifying. I apologize for all of the personal questions, but what were you facing if you went to trial? I am fascinated by this. Honestly, it sounds like you were the victim of one-size-fits-all justice...

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#107
post #75

Of course my self-involved reaction to this discussion is "what does a geek do to land themselves in prison?" I'm guessing probably mostly drug offenses, and maybe occasionally hacking related activities. Anything else? I'm sure violent crime is pretty unusual. Maybe tax evasion?

Involuntary manslaughter? (eg: auto accident)

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#108
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN has no PM system. You'll have to give him an email.

Seems like they should add one. Might be a good reason to learn Scheme... https://github.com/wting/hackernews

My email is in my profile - adam@deftnerd.com

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is sealing your juvenile record not an option where you live?

Basically, I gave a ride to a couch-surfer that ended up committing a robbery. Instead of turning them in when I found out, I just kicked them out... but the police said that made me an accomplice so I went to prison for 6 months and was on probation for 10 years. I was charged as an adult, so it can't be sealed. Even if I managed to get the records expunged by donating enough money to $partyInPower, it wouldn't matt…

> it wouldn't matter much because all the data brokers have already bought that information and are under no obligation to remove the information from their databases.

That's actually not right. If you get a criminal record expunged, the FCRA requires those data brokers to not release those records ever again to whoever runs a background check on you. If they do it, they're in violation of the FCRA.

The thing that sucks is that there is NOT some kind of big hammer that comes out of the sky and smashes them if they screw up in this way. The process is basically that you'd contact them after the fact to let them know the record was expunged and they'd remove it... which doesn't help if you just failed to get a job because of the record. But they're supposed to stay on top of things and preemptively remove records like this before it becomes an issue.

I'd guess it's worth getting an expungement if you're done with your probation. In some places it's easier than others.

Re: What is it like to be a geek in a prison?

#110

I help teach a nonviolent communication program at a nearby prison, and the technological restrictions placed on the prisoners are pretty shocking to me. They are allowed an electric typewriter with 7K of memory (down from 16K.) The only audio media they are allowed are cassette tapes. DVDs are forbidden, apparently because a shard from one could conceivably be used as a weapon. A co-ordinator of a college program fo…

> A co-ordinator of a college program for the inmates told me that they have a CS course, but can't find anyone to teach it because the students will not be allowed to use computers.

Huh, interesting. It reminds me of this business school assignment where groups were given $5 and were tasked to make as much money form it as possible. The groups who ended up doing the best were the groups who realized that $5 was dangerously close to $0, and just worked on ideas that required no capital to get started instead of figuring out how to best invest the $5.

The point being that here, maybe you could teach some sort of math course? Teaching CS stuff like algorithms, theory of computation, etc. without computers. It could be interesting.

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