Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#81

Post by alxndr » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 2:11 AM UTC

001sky wrote: post #42

mbel wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and when I search lyrics in Google, I really want to go to rap genius. So, isn't it easier (and faster) to go directly to rapgenius or create custom search keyword in the browser, than ask google for the lyrics?

when I search lyrics in Google, I really want to go to rap genius Sounds like a wasted step. Go to your site and search it. Or has it outsourced that (/expectation) to Google? Even then, search {site: XYZ} in the g box and be done with it.

Better yet: add RapGenius as a %s-bookmark (or Chrome calls them search engines): "http://rapgenius.com/search?q=%s"

My favorite use for this is a Google IFL search restricted to site:wikipedia.org, so now "w something" in my URL bar takes me right to the Wikipedia page for Something.

So yeah, outsourcing to Google... but fast and handy and almost always what I'm looking for.

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#82

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 2:18 AM UTC

csomar wrote: post #47

Google is actually penalizing its users' as they'll have less useful results instead of the best possible results. Google is not supposed to be the Internet police. It's supposed to analyze the best sites, and rank them. Rap Genius getting some spammy links doesn't make it a better site; but it doesn't make it worse either. The next thing we are going to see is a Google Justice Department?

Taking action which poses a stron disincentive to the kind of black hat SEO campaign RG was runnin benefits Google's users—tolerating such an action (especially as widely piblicized as RG's campaign had become) would have hurt Google's users far more than penalizing RG ever could.

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#83

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 2:22 AM UTC

itsprofitbaron wrote: post #7

minimaxir wrote: post #5

NOTE: There is an update not in the original report, apparently RG is working with Google to resolve the issue: We are working with Google right now to resolve this. They’ve been really great, helping us identify changes we need to make, even on Christmas. We’re working on it as fast as we can, and expect to be back on Google very soon. It sucks to be off Google for us and for the thousands of our community members w…

By working with Google they mean they're going to work with them to identify the links they need to clean up, try and get those links "cleaned up" themselves, submit a disavow file and then get them to reconsider the site as outlined here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6963785 It happens all the time and no disrespect to RapGenius, to companies much bigger than them.

[deleted]

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#84

Post by dkuntz2 » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 3:26 AM UTC

zmitri wrote: post #76

dkuntz2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, did they not, with "malice aforethought", blatantly disregard Google's terms. And then brag about it? And, after being called on it, issue a not-really apology that basically said "fuck you, we do what we want"?

Are Google's terms a moral imperative? Does observation of Google's terms define who you are as a person? Are rules created by a corporation means to determine whether doing something is right or wrong? Google can do what they want, they own the rankings. But why would you personally attack someone? Is adherence to Google's terms a factor you use in judging the quality of someone's character?

Considering all the parent did was call them "toxic", something I personally agree with based on everything I've read and heard about them, and that wasn't even their main point, your questions are kinda moot.

No, Google's terms aren't a moral imperative, but Rap Genius' team bragging about breaking the terms and complaining when they didn't get their way doesn't make his statement of "Those guys are toxic" wrong.

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#85

Post by DominikR » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 3:31 AM UTC

benched wrote: post #31

So, the best lyric site by a mile no longer shows up in ordinary Google lyric searches. As a music fanatic, searching lyrics is something I do all day long every day, by the way - and when I search lyrics in Google, I really want to go to rap genius. Anyway, supposedly this degradation of Google had to happen to make a public example, and most of us are ok with it because the founders of RG are known to be kind of je…

> supposedly this degradation of Google had to happen to make a public example

How exactly did you come to the conclusion that this is some kind of public example?

Punishing websites that that are caught engaging in black hat SEO seems to be pretty consistent with what Google has done in the past.

And it's not like this is bad for search users because I doubt that we would prefer having link farms with useless content as the top result for every search query.

> because the founders of RG are known to be kind of jerky and unprofessional, and we loves professionalism cause the more we love it, the more it makes us look professional.

Who cares if the founders of RG are jerks or not? I'm incapable of understanding what you are trying to say here.

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#86

Post by NegativeK » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 3:57 AM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #66

JHSheridan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do I need to explain how a publicly traded company is still private, or are you just being purposely obtuse?

Look at Googles multi class share structure and ask that Q again.

JHSheridan is using the term "private" to mean "not owned by the government."

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#87

Post by dimitar » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 4:32 AM UTC

I laughed out loud when I realized this (I was searching for Tyler, the Creator lyrics) - instead of filing a page with their links, now they are nowhere to be found. Checked my watch and it was still December'13 so something is wrong.

The annotations have really degraded in quality - there used to be some very good ones that gave you context and explained complex puns and references and now you have 9gag style memes.

The RapGenius story and characters become more and more fit for a movie making fun of the whole internet industry.

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#88

Post by paulhauggis » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 4:38 AM UTC

flexie wrote: post #8

Still, the real story here is that almost all small businesses depend on the mercy of one giant corporation. This Google monstrosity / police man should be split up into smaller, competing search engines.

This is why your business shouldn't rely on it. I initially rely on it to get users, but then get info like email addresses, so if they ever decide to make changes in their algo and I drop rankings, I am still in business.

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#89

Post by tzs » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 4:50 AM UTC

I occasionally search for lyrics. If I know the name of the artist and song, I search for those with the word lyrics added. If I have a line from the song I'll type that and add lyrics.

I don't think I've ever noticed a Rap Genius result. To check this, I just searched for a few lyrics on Bing (where presumably Rap Genius is not penalized), and did not get any Rap Genius results. I even tried some Justin Bieber lyrics searches because I believe the links that got Rap Genius in trouble had to do with Bieber songs. Nothing on Bing.

Could someone give some examples of searches that used to include Rap Genius high in the results?

Re: Google Destroys Rap Genius’ Search Result Rankings As Punishment For SEO Spam

#90

Post by zmitri » Thu, Dec 26, 2013, 4:51 AM UTC

dkuntz2 wrote: post #84

zmitri wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Google's terms a moral imperative? Does observation of Google's terms define who you are as a person? Are rules created by a corporation means to determine whether doing something is right or wrong? Google can do what they want, they own the rankings. But why would you personally attack someone? Is adherence to Google's terms a factor you use in judging the quality of someone's character?

Considering all the parent did was call them "toxic", something I personally agree with based on everything I've read and heard about them, and that wasn't even their main point, your questions are kinda moot. No, Google's terms aren't a moral imperative, but Rap Genius' team bragging about breaking the terms and complaining when they didn't get their way doesn't make his statement of "Those guys are toxic" wrong.

You just called a group of human beings poisonous based on stuff you've "read and heard". Think about that. Poison kills people. You've never interacted with them personally, yet you are already calling them toxic.

So prior to actually analyzing the situation, you are already saying you don't care what actually happened, you don't like them anyway. Context is important, and I believe if you come into a conversation with a closed mind, it's not a conversation. That's why I don't believe those questions are moot.

Do you believe Edward Snowden is toxic for breaking rules and then complaining that things didn't go his way? I feel as though I could make the same argument about him using the logic you've just presented.