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Noam Chomsky – "On Anarchism" [video]

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Re: Noam Chomsky – "On Anarchism" [video]

#141

Post by eli_gottlieb »

tokenizer wrote: post #134
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've come to this stance FROM being a socialist because it's the only moral way of doing things. Deontology <: morality. That is, deontological moral codes are a strict subset of all moral codes people actually find compelling.

Could you explain what you mean? What I meant was that while I believe equality and guaranteed access to basic needs as the goal of humanity and necessary for future growth at some point, I also believe that it's impossible to achieve these goals through institutions and governments. My moral change from being a left leaning anarchists to a right leaning anarchist was because I was swayed by Stefan Molyneux's Philoso…

> Could you explain what you mean?

Minarcho-capitalism has only one moral rule: the Non-Aggression Principle. It has no considerations of the virtues its system inculcates in people, nor for their utilitarian well-being. It only acknowledges one rule as being a moral factor. Ever.

Meaning: go ahead and eat puppies or kick people in debtors' prisons, because you're still obeying the One Rule of not violating private property.

Hence my objection: you can't structure an entire society on one moral rule that corresponds to nothing else in any other form of ethics or morals.

Re: Noam Chomsky – "On Anarchism" [video]

#142

Post by eli_gottlieb »

anoncowherd wrote: post #138
tokenizer wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what you mean? What I meant was that while I believe equality and guaranteed access to basic needs as the goal of humanity and necessary for future growth at some point, I also believe that it's impossible to achieve these goals through institutions and governments. My moral change from being a left leaning anarchists to a right leaning anarchist was because I was swayed by Stefan Molyneux's Philoso…

>> I was swayed by Stefan Molyneux's Philosophical arguments for Individualist Anarchy. The only sticking point I still have is the question of wage labour, which I am opposed to Good job so far. Next, you need more knowledge of economics: http://mises.org and you'll get around to reaching full sanity :p

Except that Austrian "Economics" takes an ideologically anti-empirical stance, so it can't actually be called part of any reputable science of economics.

Re: Noam Chomsky – "On Anarchism" [video]

#143

Post by anoncowherd »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #141
tokenizer wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what you mean? What I meant was that while I believe equality and guaranteed access to basic needs as the goal of humanity and necessary for future growth at some point, I also believe that it's impossible to achieve these goals through institutions and governments. My moral change from being a left leaning anarchists to a right leaning anarchist was because I was swayed by Stefan Molyneux's Philoso…

> Could you explain what you mean? Minarcho-capitalism has only one moral rule: the Non-Aggression Principle. It has no considerations of the virtues its system inculcates in people, nor for their utilitarian well-being. It only acknowledges one rule as being a moral factor. Ever. Meaning: go ahead and eat puppies or kick people in debtors' prisons, because you're still obeying the One Rule of not violating private p…

>> Minarcho-capitalism has only one moral rule

You just made up a new political philosophy there.

>> It has no considerations of the virtues its system inculcates in people

The virtues "its system" inculcates in people? Look, we're all brainwashed into the cult of statism while growing up, and I've spent my time arguing against sanity too. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and start seeing reason when it's presented to you.

Freedom is not a "system". It's just the absence of coercion. If you want to call waking people up into reality, and trying to get them to be consistent and rational in their thinking "inculcation", then be my guest. But that changes nothing about the nature of the world we actually live in.

>> nor for their utilitarian well-being. It only acknowledges one rule as being a moral factor. Ever.

Even if we all adhere to the NAP, which we're actually naturally inclined to do automatically (because it's not like people walk around wanting to hurt anyone) we're still free to use our common sense whenever the need arises.

In other words, the NAP is not some all-encompassing, universal moral absolute that rules out any and all considerations for what might be the right thing to do in some specific situation.

>> Meaning: go ahead and eat puppies or kick people in debtors' prisons, because you're still obeying the One Rule of not violating private property.

Your brain is working pretty fucking hard in avoiding having to accept reason and reality. As I said, I've had to go through that phase too. But try and get past it already. Let Larken Rose be your therapist: http://www.youtube.com/user/LarkenRose/videos - he's awesome.

>> you can't structure an entire society on one moral rule that corresponds to nothing else in any other form of ethics or morals

But "don't hurt anyone" is a pretty good moral rule, don't you think? -That's basically what the NAP says.

Re: Noam Chomsky – "On Anarchism" [video]

#144

Post by collyw »

mike_esspe wrote: post #13
collyw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anarcho-capitalism isn't anarchism.

If you treat the word anarchism as "stateless society", then anarcho-capitalism is anarchism. If you treat the word anarchism as "anarcho-communism", then you are right. Even from historical perspective, individual anarchism is almost as old, as communitarian.

http://www.spunk.org/library/intro/faq/sp001547/secF1.html

"Anarcho"-capitalists claim to be anarchists because they say that they oppose government. As such, as noted in the last section, they use a dictionary definition of anarchism. However, this fails to appreciate that anarchism is a political theory, not a dictionary definition

Re: Noam Chomsky – "On Anarchism" [video]

#145

Post by mike_esspe »

collyw wrote: post #144
mike_esspe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you treat the word anarchism as "stateless society", then anarcho-capitalism is anarchism. If you treat the word anarchism as "anarcho-communism", then you are right. Even from historical perspective, individual anarchism is almost as old, as communitarian.

http://www.spunk.org/library/intro/faq/sp001547/secF1.html "Anarcho"-capitalists claim to be anarchists because they say that they oppose government. As such, as noted in the last section, they use a dictionary definition of anarchism. However, this fails to appreciate that anarchism is a political theory, not a dictionary definition

So his claim is that anarchism = absence of government + no rent and profit. It's not a common definition nowadays.

By the way anarcho-capitalism is compatible top down with other form of more strict anarchism. You can make a voluntary anarcho-communistic society inside anarcho-capitalistic society.

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