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How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

aaronsw.com

71–80 of 171 posts

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on Google Fiber. You give us money, we give you an Internet connection. I'm glad you made an account just for this, though. What a great community HN can be.

> I work on Google Fiber. You give us money, we give you an Internet connection. ...so that there's a pretty good chance that [you] will use Google Search, and [we] will then show you ads. Also, [we] inadvertently created a channel for analysis on [your] Web browsing habits if [we] were so inclined, which would enable [us] to refine advertising even more, among other things. If those are not the entire rationale for…

The ads are not bad by themselves.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#72
post #17

A month earlier, Aaron wrote about his experiences working in a more traditional kind of office: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace > Gray walls, gray desks, gray noise. The first day I showed up here, I simply couldn’t take it. By lunch time I had literally locked myself in a bathroom stall and started crying. So I'm not sure what kind of office would have ever met his approval.

Presumably one that is somewhere between those two extremes...

I actually have direct personal experience with both of his "extremes" -- I worked in the office he described as "gray" from 2008 to 2011, and I've been working in various Google offices ever since.

There's really not that much of a gap between the two.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work on Google Fiber. You give us money, we give you an Internet connection. I'm glad you made an account just for this, though. What a great community HN can be.

"I work on Google Fiber. You give us money, we give you an Internet connection." Real revolutionary, I tell you. No doubt Page and Sergey are having wet dreams by dreaming of the extra data that they get by spying on even more things. Because that's what every Google products ends up being, a snooping device to help Google sell more expensive ads. There's no pride or code of honor at Google, just more ad clicks than…

Google is by no means a 100% perfect actor but some of your claims found their way into tinfoil territory. And no, fraud does not account for most of Google's income. Google is a public company and you are more than welcome to review those figures yourself.

And in my limited experience at Google, I found that most people are very prideful about what they are doing. It's just unfortunate that most things Google are doing revolve around, in the end, advertising impressions.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#74
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I work on Google Fiber. You give us money, we give you an Internet connection. ...so that there's a pretty good chance that [you] will use Google Search, and [we] will then show you ads. Also, [we] inadvertently created a channel for analysis on [your] Web browsing habits if [we] were so inclined, which would enable [us] to refine advertising even more, among other things. If those are not the entire rationale for…

The ads are not bad by themselves.

I would contend that advertising, marketing, and consumerism are not noble causes for humanity, and engineers who devote their lifespan to enabling such things are wasting their precious allotment of time. Google's revenue driver is putting products in front of eyeballs. Imagine a world in which such a thing was not a market.

Yes, you need awareness of products for people to buy said products. I get that. But no, you don't need to do data analysis on my browsing and search habits to come up with the most effective product to show me to increase the chances of me buying it. Spreading the word about a product is one thing. Treating the human being as a means to a sale, optimizing accordingly, and creating a market for "data" is another. That anybody on planet Earth would consider my shopping habits worthy of purchase just boggles me, and that I am not even consulted in most cases about analysis and sales of such data taking place is just the icing on the cake.

It says something that I pay Comcast $100/month+ for entertainment and I am still shown advertisements for a third (or more) of every hour. I pay for the privilege of being shown new cars. Repeatedly. Black Friday comes to mind, too, as another example of the feedback loop losing control of itself.

To be clear, things are not bad. Our consumer culture is a little bit out of hand, and I'd rather devote my remaining years to producing something of actual value instead of imaginary marketing value. To that end, that Google let me go was in fact a blessing in disguise, and I just hadn't realized it yet.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#75
post #11

I thought it looked creepy, like an adult daycare center. I was approached twice and interviewed twice by Google but I don't think I'd fit that culture. No offices -- just open spaces. A meritocracy where you are evaluated by your peers generally, rather than by a boss or customer for your merits in a particular job. Where you don't even know what you will be working on until you're hired, as if that gives you a choi…

I'm surprised at how polarizing no offices vs open offices is. My first job at IBM, I had an office with two co-workers. They were great, but on days they were out it was sooo isolating. When I quit and took a job at a start up in SF with an open office plan, I loved it immediately. I could look across the room and see if the systems guy was there or getting coffee, instead of pinging into the Sametime void. So, I'm…

There's open space and then there's open space. If there are cube walls and other de facto barriers separating my space from the space of others in my team, and higher walls separating my team's space from the rest of the company, I'm happy. But if I have to choose from one extreme or another, I'd rather have my own separate space with an office and a door that closes rather than sitting at a conference table elbow to elbow with a sales guy who spends all day on the phone.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#76
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ads are not bad by themselves.

I would contend that advertising, marketing, and consumerism are not noble causes for humanity, and engineers who devote their lifespan to enabling such things are wasting their precious allotment of time. Google's revenue driver is putting products in front of eyeballs. Imagine a world in which such a thing was not a market. Yes, you need awareness of products for people to buy said products. I get that. But no, you…

IMO it depends on which kind.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#77
post #55

Google is a mammoth. Generalising it would be similar to doing the same of a whole country. I do not work there but know many that have that speak so highly of its foundations. Like some sort of new form of knowledge discovery and expansion of thought. While it may be infantile this could just as well be seen as an advantage, at least for a while to come. It is one of the frontiers of innovation for company building…

The four-weeks-vacation-but-feel-bad-about-that-and-occasionally-working-from-home thing does seem archaic and counterproductive for knowledge workers who are best when they're creative. I can understand how putting a fire out or having chance encounters with coworkers makes the full-time thing beneficial on the long tail, but the accumulated self-inflicted guilt and burn out go a long way toward that eventual decision of switching jobs (if just for the reprieve while ramping down and switching).

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#78
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one doesn't look gray: http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-offic...

This, incidentally, is the same building that Google San Francisco is in.

Not quite. Same complex, but we're the building next door.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I work on Google Fiber. You give us money, we give you an Internet connection." Real revolutionary, I tell you. No doubt Page and Sergey are having wet dreams by dreaming of the extra data that they get by spying on even more things. Because that's what every Google products ends up being, a snooping device to help Google sell more expensive ads. There's no pride or code of honor at Google, just more ad clicks than…

Google is by no means a 100% perfect actor but some of your claims found their way into tinfoil territory. And no, fraud does not account for most of Google's income. Google is a public company and you are more than welcome to review those figures yourself. And in my limited experience at Google, I found that most people are very prideful about what they are doing. It's just unfortunate that most things Google are do…

And no, fraud does not account for most of Google's income. Google is a public company and you are more than welcome to review those figures yourself.

Fraud: saying from every top of the mountain that we serve results best for the users, we serve unbiased results, you can't buy a top rank on Google etc etc etc and then showing barely distinguishable (from content) ads on top and in many case showing almost all ads. That's fraud to me, regardless of the fact that we have a toothless FTC.

What % of users know a Google ad vs unbiased content? What % of users know that Google Products is 100% ads and in many cases it cost them a fortune?

If Google wanted users to know ads or bought rank from unbiased ones they'd find the way. They can just undo what they did from around 2007 until now.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#80
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, incidentally, is the same building that Google San Francisco is in.

Not quite. Same complex, but we're the building next door.

Oh yeah, there's that weird arch thing that makes them look like they're connected, but they're completely separated. Confusing.
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