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How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

aaronsw.com

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Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#41

Post by mlyang »

Creatives (designers, engineers, etc.) with optionality (at the caliber that Google would hire) pine for freelance-like working conditions (not referring to pay, but rather creative control, flexible hours, and amenities). These tech firms try to absorb as many of those benefits as possible to woo over employees. In Google's early days, maybe employees had greater creative control over their projects-- hence creating more autonomous and creative working conditions. However, as a company scales, you inevitably lose your creative control and become a cog in the larger machine. No perks can veil this, hence the changing of Googlers' mentalities.

Unless you're at the top of one of these large firms, I have a really hard time imagining any creative and truly autonomous person willing to work for more than a year at any of these institutions before breaking free and either founding a startup, joining an early stage startup, or freelancing.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#42

Post by boomzilla »

tikhonj wrote: post #27
derwiki wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised at how polarizing no offices vs open offices is. My first job at IBM, I had an office with two co-workers. They were great, but on days they were out it was sooo isolating. When I quit and took a job at a start up in SF with an open office plan, I loved it immediately. I could look across the room and see if the systems guy was there or getting coffee, instead of pinging into the Sametime void. So, I'm…

This is something I've found very weird: there's a sharp difference between the opinions of people I know in person and people online. HN commenters love to hate open office plans. It's one of the few topics on which they agree with /r/programming! And yet everywhere I've spent time has been in favor of open offices. This includes a few startups, sure, but also an enterprise software company (Guidewire), an academic…

I think the real factor is not open space vs private office, but the ideal working environment is a healthy mix of communication (face to face preferably) to exchange ideas/knowledge/status updates and private space for tasks that requires concentration and focus. Clearly the former would be easier in an open space office, and the latter in a dedicated office. And of course, the right mix differs from one person to another depending on the roles and personal characters.

In my experience, I think I am most productive in an open space environment with flexible hours / work from home policy. Availability of conference/quiet rooms is another option.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#43

Post by jrockway »

I guess on some level this is true. Is there some place where you can work and get money for doing whatever you want, and defying authority whenever you want? If so, sign me up!

Over in the real world, working for an employer like Google is a risk hedge. If your idea for a project this quarter turns out to not be useful, you don't run out of money and end up living in a cardboard box. You learn from your experience, try again, and your family gets food on the table. You can say it's childish to hedge risk, but you can also say it's very adult to hedge risk. Maybe you are a super genius that can code up a solution to a really hard problem all by yourself. But what if the market doesn't like it? Too bad, you're in the same place as the guy who sits at home all day, smokes pot, and watches daytime TV. The market decided: you suck.

I agree with Aaron that we could always use more computers. Sometimes during peak hours, the batch scheduler will only give me a few hundred machines to run my MapReduce on. What am I, a farmer?

Ultimately, I like working at Google and I like having toys in the office. I have Nerf guns. I use Hakase from Nichijou as my profile picture. At the same time, I feel like I'm doing impactful work, with some very smart people. And I feel that I'm evaluated (and compensated) fairly. Does that make me infantile? Maybe so. But I like it.

My real fear of leaving Google is the time I'll have to spend writing all the infrastructure from scratch. And finding someone else that can afford my hourly rate.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#44

Post by sanderjd »

raldi wrote: post #17

A month earlier, Aaron wrote about his experiences working in a more traditional kind of office: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace > Gray walls, gray desks, gray noise. The first day I showed up here, I simply couldn’t take it. By lunch time I had literally locked myself in a bathroom stall and started crying. So I'm not sure what kind of office would have ever met his approval.

Presumably one that is somewhere between those two extremes...

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#45

Post by pjscott »

walid wrote: post #7
ihodes wrote: post #3

This article always struck me as being composed of two distinctly different opinions. One, Aaron's assertion that employees at Google are being infantilized. Two, that Google's mission and their overall morale and sense of purpose has changed. Two may be true; I can't speak but anecdotally to this (and nor could he). But One always struck me as very mean-spirited and unnecessary. As if told by the father in Peter Pan…

You do know that one of Aaron's strengths, or at least a point of focus, was gamification. Looking at this article in that light you realize that he was trying to stir up a conversation. He also didn't seem to bother to be nice, at least when he had an opposing opinion.

I think the word for that is "trolling." And you're right: the article does make more sense when looked at that way.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#46

Post by shmerl »

raldi wrote: post #17

A month earlier, Aaron wrote about his experiences working in a more traditional kind of office: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace > Gray walls, gray desks, gray noise. The first day I showed up here, I simply couldn’t take it. By lunch time I had literally locked myself in a bathroom stall and started crying. So I'm not sure what kind of office would have ever met his approval.

This one doesn't look gray: http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-offic...

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#47

Post by jrockway »

shmerl wrote: post #46
raldi wrote: post #17

A month earlier, Aaron wrote about his experiences working in a more traditional kind of office: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace > Gray walls, gray desks, gray noise. The first day I showed up here, I simply couldn’t take it. By lunch time I had literally locked myself in a bathroom stall and started crying. So I'm not sure what kind of office would have ever met his approval.

This one doesn't look gray: http://www.businessinsider.com/inside-mozillas-amazing-offic...

This, incidentally, is the same building that Google San Francisco is in.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#48

Post by jrockway »

pcvarmint wrote: post #5

I thought it looked creepy, like an adult daycare center. I was approached twice and interviewed twice by Google but I don't think I'd fit that culture. No offices -- just open spaces. A meritocracy where you are evaluated by your peers generally, rather than by a boss or customer for your merits in a particular job. Where you don't even know what you will be working on until you're hired, as if that gives you a choi…

Some teams at Google sit in enclosed offices. You can choose. (I prefer some walls to keep the noise level down, and I had the opportunity to pick once. But everyone else on the team wanted to sit in the open area. So I guess it's really one of those things that depends on the individual.)

The signs are the names of printers.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#49

Post by sliverstorm »

raldi wrote: post #17

A month earlier, Aaron wrote about his experiences working in a more traditional kind of office: http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/officespace > Gray walls, gray desks, gray noise. The first day I showed up here, I simply couldn’t take it. By lunch time I had literally locked myself in a bathroom stall and started crying. So I'm not sure what kind of office would have ever met his approval.

I have to think his head was wired differently than most of us.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#50

Post by sliverstorm »

hawkharris wrote: post #13

Right after college, I was enticed by these perks: free food, laundry services, etc. After a few years in industry, I became more interested in the less sexy but more substantive benefits like a competitive salary, a 401K and good medical coverage. College-like perks and grown-up perks are not always mutually exclusive. My understanding is that Google pays developers well and offers great benefits. However, my experi…

"Stock options? Who needs stock options when you have beanbag chairs?"

If I want a beanbag chair at my desk, I'll buy myself a beanbag chair, thankyouverymuch. :)

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