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How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

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Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#21

Post by benched »

amaks wrote: post #14
ex-googler1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not much. i quit a few months ago and so happy to be out of that insane place. they compare your work against your coworkers, so its constant competition, even if you meet your "goals". they also have zero work/life balance. all that free food and google shuttles wear off after a couple of months. then their non-stop work life settles in and you realize you made a horrible decision by accepting the job offer. the onl…

Apparently you haven't worked for Microsoft. Google is engineer's heaven compared to MS.

The Microsoft experience varies a lot throughout the organization. I was on a workaholic team for a year and it was a nightmare. The other four years, though, my typical day was from 10:30-4:00, and whenever I didn't feel like going in I'd "work from home" - typically on my XBox. The majority of the MS people I know have similar work ethics. (Though, it should be noted, we did get our work done. I got the highest review ratings every year I was there.)

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#22

Post by charleslmunger »

I don't think this is really accurate. It's not about treating people like kids, it's about rejecting the attitude found at dilbert-style corporations.

The T-Rex skeleton and the shark fins are there because they're cool. Google has monorail cars as meeting rooms in the Sydney office [1] - because an engineer requested it. It shows that management listens to employees. It gives people the confidence to propose somewhat outlandish ideas, because if management will buy a monorail because an employee requests it, management will allocate resources to things that actually matter because employees request it. Those stories don't get publicized, but I've seen it happen multiple times.

Also, the idea that all google employees are young kids just out of college who are being shielded from "the real world" by free food and buses is silly, many of my coworkers are married with kids.

[1] https://plus.google.com/+PaulCowan/posts/Sfm9SpV4eCE

I work for google, but I'm not speaking on their behalf.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#23

Post by skinnycow »

10098 wrote: post #19
ex-googler1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not much. i quit a few months ago and so happy to be out of that insane place. they compare your work against your coworkers, so its constant competition, even if you meet your "goals". they also have zero work/life balance. all that free food and google shuttles wear off after a couple of months. then their non-stop work life settles in and you realize you made a horrible decision by accepting the job offer. the onl…

Try MS, that's where the real competition is :-) I've heard horror stories about how someone on the team simply has to get low performance score, and when you get a low score it's basically a signal that you're getting fired. I can't imagine how poisonous that must be.

This is now no longer the case.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#24

Post by Cookingboy »

amaks wrote: post #16
ex-googler1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not much. i quit a few months ago and so happy to be out of that insane place. they compare your work against your coworkers, so its constant competition, even if you meet your "goals". they also have zero work/life balance. all that free food and google shuttles wear off after a couple of months. then their non-stop work life settles in and you realize you made a horrible decision by accepting the job offer. the onl…

AFAIK, Google doesn't have stock options. I don't think you worked for Google.

We get stock units directly, maybe that's what he meant. I certainly find my team has a pretty decent work-life balance, and we are at a pretty high pressure org as well.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#27

Post by tikhonj »

derwiki wrote: post #11
pcvarmint wrote: post #5

I thought it looked creepy, like an adult daycare center. I was approached twice and interviewed twice by Google but I don't think I'd fit that culture. No offices -- just open spaces. A meritocracy where you are evaluated by your peers generally, rather than by a boss or customer for your merits in a particular job. Where you don't even know what you will be working on until you're hired, as if that gives you a choi…

I'm surprised at how polarizing no offices vs open offices is. My first job at IBM, I had an office with two co-workers. They were great, but on days they were out it was sooo isolating. When I quit and took a job at a start up in SF with an open office plan, I loved it immediately. I could look across the room and see if the systems guy was there or getting coffee, instead of pinging into the Sametime void. So, I'm…

This is something I've found very weird: there's a sharp difference between the opinions of people I know in person and people online.

HN commenters love to hate open office plans. It's one of the few topics on which they agree with /r/programming!

And yet everywhere I've spent time has been in favor of open offices. This includes a few startups, sure, but also an enterprise software company (Guidewire), an academic research lab (Berkeley ParLab) and a quantitative trading firm (Jane Street).

In the ParLab, even most professors didn't have dedicated offices--apparently, this makes them more accessible and gets them to talk to their students more. David Patterson, the leader of the lab--with a lot of research experience--talked about how switching to an open layout was a real improvement in the research process.

At JSC, both traders and developers share an open space. This makes communication between the two parts of the company much more fluid. The founders of the firm all originally came from another firm where developers and traders were sequestered from each other, and they have found the shared open space to be entirely preferable.

Many of the other experienced people I've worked with have also been big fans of open office layouts. And these are some of the most productive organizations I've ever seen--probably some of the best full stop.

And yet most online commenters treat it as a given that an open space is completely inferior to real offices.

Personally, I'm a big fan of working in a nice open layout. It makes it much easier to talk to other people, even if I don't have a specific problem to solve. This makes work both more pleasant and more efficient because I can get outside input or an extra set of eyes at any point in the development process. Moreover, since I'm similarly helping other people out, I get a good sense of their projects as well.

And if I need to concentrate, I can just put on headphones or go to a quiet room. But I much prefer that not to be the default action, only taken when it's needed.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#28

Post by robrenaud »

amaks wrote: post #16
ex-googler1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not much. i quit a few months ago and so happy to be out of that insane place. they compare your work against your coworkers, so its constant competition, even if you meet your "goals". they also have zero work/life balance. all that free food and google shuttles wear off after a couple of months. then their non-stop work life settles in and you realize you made a horrible decision by accepting the job offer. the onl…

AFAIK, Google doesn't have stock options. I don't think you worked for Google.

They did for awhile. I still have some vesting.

Re: How Google keeps employees by treating them like kids (2006)

#29

Post by mindcrime »

derwiki wrote: post #11
pcvarmint wrote: post #5

I thought it looked creepy, like an adult daycare center. I was approached twice and interviewed twice by Google but I don't think I'd fit that culture. No offices -- just open spaces. A meritocracy where you are evaluated by your peers generally, rather than by a boss or customer for your merits in a particular job. Where you don't even know what you will be working on until you're hired, as if that gives you a choi…

I'm surprised at how polarizing no offices vs open offices is. My first job at IBM, I had an office with two co-workers. They were great, but on days they were out it was sooo isolating. When I quit and took a job at a start up in SF with an open office plan, I loved it immediately. I could look across the room and see if the systems guy was there or getting coffee, instead of pinging into the Sametime void. So, I'm…

What are the main arguments for offices? Peace and quiet and the ability to focus?

Yes, with a heavy emphasis on the cost of (mental) context switches.

Personally I despise working in an "open plan" environment more than almost anything in the world. That said, I do it at my consulting job, and it's tolerable mainly because A. I'm not always in "the office" and B. it's a fairly small group.

I should point out though, that there's a balance to be struck. I mean, even I do like the open plan thing for brief moments here and there... Some of the random conversations that start up are hilarious and I've literally laughed until I was crying on occasion. And I will engage in the occasional nerf dart war with everyone. BUT... on those occasions when you absolutely have to have peace and quiet and are trying to focus intently on something, there's nothing worse than having to deal with all the noise and ruckus that sometimes kicks up.

On balance, I'll take a private office with a door any day. But I've always said that my goal for Fogbeam is - when we get to a point where we have employees, an office, etc. - to give every employee a private office with a door (and a "guest chair" or two), but complemented by plenty of open spaces (preferably around the perimeter of the building, near sources of natural light) with tables, chairs, sofas, rolling whiteboards, etc. so people can get out, be social, collaborate face-to-face, while having the sanctity of an office to duck into for deep thought / intense focus times.

I have also pondered trying to create a few "commons room" type areas.

Of course, it's all a moot point until we start making money... sigh

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