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The real use of money is to buy freedom

paraschopra.com

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Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#91
post #21

Tim O'Reilly on money: It’s easy to get caught up in the heady buzz of making money. You should regard money as fuel for what you really want to do, not as a goal in and of itself. Money is like gas in the car — you need to pay attention or you’ll end up on the side of the road — but a well-lived life is not a tour of gas stations! Source: http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/01/work-on-stuff-that-matters-...

> The real use of money is to buy freedom The real problem is: This additional freedom you can buy with money means less freedom for somebody else. Inequality (wealth-based) means nothing else than domination. If you are richer, then you dominate the poorer people. And richer countries dominate poorer countries. This is the most basic and fundamental injustice [0] we seem to accept in our Western culture. Because we…

The real problem is: This additional freedom you can buy with money means less freedom for somebody else.

This assumes that wealth is a zero-sum game, so it can be traded around but not created.

It's hard to reconcile that view with the fact that standards-of-living have been growing, more or less worldwide , for the two centuries.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was #6 because of how you dressed, or because you could host events at your new place, or some other factors? I'm curious since I have some acquaintances who are morbidly afraid of having members of the opposite sex approach them for their substantial wealth. They go out of their way to mask their material status.

Why gender neutral language ? I think it makes big difference for men and women. Women are way more attracted to status/wealth than men are and I think it's important for yours (or parent's) point to specify their sex.

Ummmmm No... Really? Men are not attracted to status/wealth? Come on, dude. Odd, I personally know more men sponging off their female counterparts then the other way around.

It will never cease to amaze me people who will go out of their way to display their total ignorance.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#93
post #21

Tim O'Reilly on money: It’s easy to get caught up in the heady buzz of making money. You should regard money as fuel for what you really want to do, not as a goal in and of itself. Money is like gas in the car — you need to pay attention or you’ll end up on the side of the road — but a well-lived life is not a tour of gas stations! Source: http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/01/work-on-stuff-that-matters-...

> The real use of money is to buy freedom The real problem is: This additional freedom you can buy with money means less freedom for somebody else. Inequality (wealth-based) means nothing else than domination. If you are richer, then you dominate the poorer people. And richer countries dominate poorer countries. This is the most basic and fundamental injustice [0] we seem to accept in our Western culture. Because we…

I think that's a simplistic view. Most rich people became rich because they provided a particular value to society. This value is exchanged for money, which allows the rich to draw back this value as they see fit.

Lets imagine that Steve Jobs, instead of getting paid for his iPhones, sold them in exchange for a person's time. The average hourly wage in USA is approximately $24, meaning an iPhone would retail for about 25 hours. You can choose not to buy an iPhone, in which case you are free, or you choose to draw this value offered by Steve Jobs, but then you'd owe him 25 hours of work. The exchange is still completely voluntary, and therefore can't constitute domination.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#94
post #21

Tim O'Reilly on money: It’s easy to get caught up in the heady buzz of making money. You should regard money as fuel for what you really want to do, not as a goal in and of itself. Money is like gas in the car — you need to pay attention or you’ll end up on the side of the road — but a well-lived life is not a tour of gas stations! Source: http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/01/work-on-stuff-that-matters-...

> The real use of money is to buy freedom The real problem is: This additional freedom you can buy with money means less freedom for somebody else. Inequality (wealth-based) means nothing else than domination. If you are richer, then you dominate the poorer people. And richer countries dominate poorer countries. This is the most basic and fundamental injustice [0] we seem to accept in our Western culture. Because we…

I agree with you. Not only we accept this, but many are not even conscious about this injustice. I think it's not an exaggeration to say this is still slavery, in a less direct form than what it used to be.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#95

The importance of money is a matter of perspective. Anyone that has the author's attitude toward money has never been poor. Ask a homeless person, or any of the 50% of the US population that has a net worth of zero or less what their opinion on money is, and it will be markedly different than the author's. The opinion that money doesn't matter is a luxury that only the wealthy can afford.

Therein precisely is a HUGE problem. I was nearly homeless, then made more money than I could have ever imagined. I turned into a monster. 9 cars (yes, all for me) and other stupid crap that I'm ashamed even to recall now.

Come to think of it, some of my buddies who made it out of the ghetto did the same thing, at first. It does take a while of being "secure" that the money isn't going to be taken away, before you start to think the way the author does. It's when you're surrounded by stuff and your life still feels empty. When you realize most the rappers were sellout pieces of garbage who, during the daytime socialize with the dentists they live next to if they can and rarely rap about how crappy a life surrounded with material wealth can also be.

Fortunately, knowing a couple of billionaires helps. I sat down with one and expressed my frustration in how I felt and how I had slowly but surely become someone I never really aspired be. It was at this point in my life it suddenly hit me. I'd known this guy for a while and had never seen him flaunt his money like I did (and he had a lot more of it than me). Then he told me that money for him is a tool. If you start using it to become a "consumer", you become consumed by it. He is not just free to do whatever, because in some way that is selfish too. Rather he uses his money to help others and makes the most positive changes in the world that he can. I know that's true because it's not just his money but he actually devoted, the much more precious commodity, of time, to his philanthropic efforts. Efforts he started when he had money like me, except he decided early on to give his away rather than spend it on himself.

It doesn't take a lot of money to be free. I live off less than a 1/3 of what I was before and have a few more in my family now (I was single before). I work with some amazing people and am trying to work on making things better for others on a daily basis. One non-profit I help out from time to time has been tackling the issue of homeless families (not substance abuse or psychiatric issue related, primarily economic issues), and not surprisingly, it's often about the parents' attitude towards money. It would be nice if they felt "secure" enough to understand that money won't buy happiness and were frugal by choice. It would really help if more people had the luxury to have the author's opinions, but thanks to culture/advertising or whatever, there's a large contingent of people who need to think about money differently but don't.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Middle class" in India does not mean what you seem to think. The vast majority of middle class Indians are poorer than most Americans living in poverty. Read my link - 95% of Indians are poorer than the bottom 5% of Americans. Unless the author defines "middle class" as "top 2%", the fact that he grew up "middle class" is meaningless when comparing his lifestyle to an American one. A stat to illustrate the point - 1…

You are conflating possessions with a predictable stream of income, and you shouldn't really be doing this.

The purpose of income is to buy goods and services. The world bank data I cite gives you data on income, the data on goods illustrates the resulting difference in goods.

If you have any data at all suggesting the Indian middle class is remotely as wealthy as even poor Americans, feel free to cite it.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#97
post #84
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between having money, which appeals only to the most shallow, and making money, which is a proxy for a range of universally desirable attributes (motivation, confidence, tenacity, intelligence, etc).

In my case making money correlated only with my willingness to be a capitalist drone for a few years. The attributes you mention surely correlate with success at most things. Admittedly money is quite popular, so assuming that its pursuit is a primary goal for everybody is probably not a terrible approximation of reality.

Sure, it's just a proxy signal. But don't discount "willingness to be a capitalist drone for a few years". For many people, taking on a multi-year commitment and seeing it through is beyond them. Such a signal would be attractive to someone who wanted kids, for example.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#98
post #85
post #51

>>A life spent mostly hoarding money and possessions is a wasted life Having seen the kind of advantage some of my friends born in rich families enjoy, I would love to hoard and posses tons of wealth even if its purely to give away in inheritance. Rich kids enjoy privileges and advantage poor kids can't even dream of. The biggest of which is attitude of course. Rich kids are born with an assumption they are supposed…

I think you've missed the point. The point is there is some amount of money that affords you the ability to do what you want. Possessions have the effect of tying you down. Buying a house, assuming you get a mortgage, is a huge expense requiring you to work to pay for it. It ties you to one geographical area and puts stress from having to make the payments. You could spend the downpayment on a house as a down payment…

| Possessions have the effect of tying you down.

This is getting to be a little off topic, but I see comments like this often from people who imagine a mortgage as a massive amount of debt hanging over your head. While I agree that home ownership is not the right move for everyone, and it's definitely true that you can't just up and leave, you can sell your house. It will probably take longer than the 30 or 60 days notice you would have to give to a landlord, but it's not as if you are signing a contract to live there for the next 30 years.

| Buying a house, assuming you get a mortgage, is a huge expense requiring you to work to pay for it.

Doesn't rent fit that description too? Unless you are crashing on someone's couch or living with your parents, housing is going to cost something. In my experience, first+last+deposit was the standard amount due upon moving in. At the end of the day you at least get to keep some of the money paid on a mortgage. Plus, if you do make it to the end of the loan, you could be paying the same monthly payment that you locked in 30 years ago, whereas rent will probably rise over time.

Re: The real use of money is to buy freedom

#99

Everybody just loves the word "freedom," like it's some magical super-juice which is the be-all and end-all of the American experience. We will all be free of obligation, pain, responsibility, and any other positive or negative thing soon enough. Instead of the pursuit of freedom, we should dedicate ourselves to obligations that honor ourselves and others. You don't really want "freedom," you want an obligation that…

Instead of the pursuit of freedom, we should dedicate ourselves to obligations that honor ourselves and others

Says you. I appreciate the freedom to sit at home and play a video game on a Saturday without feeling compelled to meet the needs of others.

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