Live data from Hacker News

Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

m.washingtonpost.com

81–90 of 213 posts

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#81

I wish Snowden would roll up his sleeves and start working on the same problem in Russia, where he now lives, and in China, where he stayed briefly on his way to Russia. His mission has hardly begun.

Is there a way to incubate people like Snowden? I suspect Snowden could be a spokesman or figurehead for movements in other countries, but I have a hard time thinking he could ever repeat another data dump without becoming a real spy. Could someone as public and recognizable be effective in getting inconvenient intelligence from other countries?

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#82
The world, especially the intelligence world, is more than black and white. A myriad hues exist, some of them dark and dirty, some grey. Here is a portrait of a man who is color blind. Experiencing the world only through a computer, he lacks the judgement to jump to the right conclusions, and goes thermonuclear only to find that mainstream Americans don't share his disability. He wants to be another Assange, but in the end he is another Manning.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#83

The Washington Post sat on the Collateral Murder video. [1,2] The New York Times sat on the warrantless wiretapping scandal at the request of the White House. [3] CBS sat on the Abu Ghraib torture scandal at the request of the Pentagon. [4] What is the Washington Post not telling us? [1] https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/15617022129 [2] http://www.cjr.org/the_kicker/wapo_denies_allegation_it_sat.... [3] http://fai…

Your point is generally valid, if a bit tinfoiled, but their hand was particularly forced this time by Snowden. If you'll recall the recent history, Snowden was spooked by his interaction with Gellman -- particularly regarding publishing timeline -- and went to Greenwald instead [1]. There's some debate about the exact sequence of events, but regardless, Greenwald put the story out first, and the Post had no choice but to follow suit. NYT was left red-faced and could only -- shamelessly -- ask Snowden why he didn't choose them [2].

[1] http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/edward-snowden-nsa-lea...

[2] http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/18/magazine/snowden-maass-tra...

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#84
post #82

The world, especially the intelligence world, is more than black and white. A myriad hues exist, some of them dark and dirty, some grey. Here is a portrait of a man who is color blind. Experiencing the world only through a computer, he lacks the judgement to jump to the right conclusions, and goes thermonuclear only to find that mainstream Americans don't share his disability. He wants to be another Assange, but in t…

You cannot seriously believe that an NSA contractor would be morally colourblind. He was expecting those shades of grey but instead found an agency more focused on spying it's citizens than Stasi.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#85
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have a right to an opinion, but that does not necessarily mean that their opinion is valid. From Wikipedia on Validity: "an argument is valid if and only if its conclusion is logically entailed by its premises."

Wouldn't that make it a proof and not an opinion?

"Government officials are vulnerable to corruption, therefore unchecked surveillance is prone to be abused and should not be implemented."

This statement's conclusion does follow from its premise and it's a valid argument, but not a proof.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government could have used Special Administrative Measures (SAMs) to keep the Snowden documents out of the papers in the USA, sending the Secret Service round to collect any 'inappropriate' documents. With a 'D-Notice' to effect the same in the UK and coupled with the usual soft measures - threaten to take away press passes from journalists (and their papers) - the whole lot could have been kept out of the papers…

The only reference I see to "Special Administrative Measures" involves communication with prisoners: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_administrative_measure Even articles in publications like "Reporters' Committee for the Freedom of the Press" refer to this phrase as a thing for prisoners: http://www.rcfp.org/browse-media-law-resources/news-media-la... So it's unclear what you're talking about.

From context it seemed as though he were using the phrase as a euphemism for extrajudicial procedures.

(read: black bag jobs, rubber hose decryption, and even piscine sleep therapy)

The fact is that the Obama administration seems to have been kept out of the compartment on a number of programs; which is not surprising, but very naughty.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#87
But what has really changed?

The NSA is under pressure from the public, less so from the intelligence and defense communities. If anything Snowden has caused those areas of government to close ranks even tighter. There's nothing a leader wants more than a highly visible enemy to unite his or her people. There are orders of magnitude more people who hate General Alexander now than there were two years ago. But his own people love him even harder.

The NSA may or may not lose some funding in the coming years. It will probably just transfer over to the NRO or the Office of Intelligence and Analysis or one of the dozen other agencies that we haven't come to know and hate yet. If there's one thing government is good at, it's maintaining the status quo. Public support has never meant much to the intelligence community. These are people who signed up to serve in secret, who have dedicated their lives to what they believe to be just causes. They won't pay a thought to a year or so of bad press.

Snowden's future is unclear. He'll probably be in russia for several more years, if he doesn't overstay his welcome. It's possible that some future president will see pardoning him as a free goodwill card. Or perhaps he'll be able to start a life as an overseas media personality, reaping the benefits of what many see as a heroic action. One thing is for certain: US intelligence agencies will continue business as usual.

Edward Snowden has shown the light, and his work is indeed done. It's up to us to effect real change and shape our government in our own image. Maybe things will change, maybe they won't. But those who dislike what he has revealed have their work cut out for them.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#88
post #64
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll probably make him a felon, won't they? (Can you vote for felons in the US?)

Yup. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States#...

Speaking of which, if he were convicted and then elected President, one could make a reasonable argument that he could then pardon himself.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#89
post #87

But what has really changed? The NSA is under pressure from the public, less so from the intelligence and defense communities. If anything Snowden has caused those areas of government to close ranks even tighter. There's nothing a leader wants more than a highly visible enemy to unite his or her people. There are orders of magnitude more people who hate General Alexander now than there were two years ago. But his own…

Political change isn't fast. There is also a legal process underway as well. Both are very slow moving, but can bring a lot of changes.

Re: Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

#90

Jesus Christ some of the comments on that article. I wonder if there was some way to analyse what percentage of it is astro-turfing and what percentage is real red-blooded Americans just brainwashed into thinking government knows best. Americans you are lost. It's been nice knowing you.

I keep seeing on HN about how most Americans simply don't care about this issue and it being the reason there isn't more of an uproar. However, I have a different take: They have a different opinion than you. It's not that they don't care, are brainwashed, or "lost", it's just that they have a different opinion on the matter. Now I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but let's keep in mind that their opinion is jus…

> It's not that they don't care, are brainwashed, or "lost", it's just that they have a different opinion on the matter.

Opinions don't magically drop down from heaven like mana. Just because an opinion is there doesn't mean we can't ponder how it got there.

> Now I'm not saying they are right or wrong, but let's keep in mind that their opinion is just as valid as yours.

"Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'" --- Isaac Asimov

Post reply on HN