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Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#21

Post by scintill76 »

kirinan wrote: post #13

This falls under the category of too little too late. I get that traditions change throughout history, I get that some things that are acceptable now were unacceptable even 10 years ago, but this is a case where people should have looked the other way. Alan Turning is both a war hero and one of the greatest minds to ever live. To simply disregard someone like that because of their sexual orientation is both short sig…

Huh? Special people should be allowed to break laws the rest of us have to follow? Gays should not have been persecuted, but only if they were "war heroes" and had "great minds"?

No, an unjust law is unjust to everyone! This is not tragic because it was done to somebody special, but it was done to thousands of "boring" others who may not get a pardon. (To say nothing of the original injustice that can't be taken back, or the fact that a pardon is not an admission of injustice.)

Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#23

Post by ska »

acheron wrote: post #18

75,000 men were convicted under the same law, of whom 26,000 are still alive. [1] Only Turing has been "pardoned". My understanding [2] is that the "pardon" implies there was nothing wrong with the law as such, just that Turing is forgiven for having broken it. So while I guess this is better than nothing, I don't know if it's really the way to go about it. [1] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhans…

I think you may have hit on the crux of it. If any stronger repudiation were offered, would that be the government opening itself up to 25000 expensive lawsuits?

Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#24

Post by [deleted] »

ska wrote: post #23
acheron wrote: post #18

75,000 men were convicted under the same law, of whom 26,000 are still alive. [1] Only Turing has been "pardoned". My understanding [2] is that the "pardon" implies there was nothing wrong with the law as such, just that Turing is forgiven for having broken it. So while I guess this is better than nothing, I don't know if it's really the way to go about it. [1] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhans…

I think you may have hit on the crux of it. If any stronger repudiation were offered, would that be the government opening itself up to 25000 expensive lawsuits?

[deleted]

Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#26

Post by fractalsea »

acheron wrote: post #18

75,000 men were convicted under the same law, of whom 26,000 are still alive. [1] Only Turing has been "pardoned". My understanding [2] is that the "pardon" implies there was nothing wrong with the law as such, just that Turing is forgiven for having broken it. So while I guess this is better than nothing, I don't know if it's really the way to go about it. [1] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhans…

Yes it is a terrible word to use, but these pardons have been issued to innocent people in the past and I suppose it has just stuck over time.

Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#27

Post by pcrh »

acheron wrote: post #18

75,000 men were convicted under the same law, of whom 26,000 are still alive. [1] Only Turing has been "pardoned". My understanding [2] is that the "pardon" implies there was nothing wrong with the law as such, just that Turing is forgiven for having broken it. So while I guess this is better than nothing, I don't know if it's really the way to go about it. [1] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhans…

Something in what you wrote reminds me of the many men shot for "cowardice" during WWI, some of whom were pardoned[1].

Many of those shot were suffering from PTSD (then called shell shock).

It is painful to consider the unjust fate of many people in the past, and even those alive today (would you care to take a walk in the Congo or Rwanda and discuss justice with those you might meet? Or perhaps take a walk in Syria?).

I really don't wish to contradict the sentiment of your statement, but only to say that "justice" is sometimes a luxury, and one which we should try to provide for everyone.

[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/hundreds-o...

Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#28

Post by skinnycow »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #25
badclient wrote: post #16

Pardon ? For what? Thanks but no thanks.

Buggery. It's been illegal many places for a very long time because it spreads disease. The sodomy laws were effectively repealed and we got AIDS. It was not a coincidence.

Ahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahaha. This is so amusingly silly and ignorant. No wonder the commentor's other posts are nearly full scale denial of racism and sexism.

Yep. HIV has been waiting around for centuries of humans screwing each other (m/f, f/f, m/m, m/m/f/f/x/y/z) and they just waited until the British Empire came along, passed buggary laws, and then repealed them to take off.

I wish I had you peoples' power of self delusion. I could just convince myself of all sorts of things that just fit my world view instead of reality.

Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#29

Post by lostlogin »

ska wrote: post #23
acheron wrote: post #18

75,000 men were convicted under the same law, of whom 26,000 are still alive. [1] Only Turing has been "pardoned". My understanding [2] is that the "pardon" implies there was nothing wrong with the law as such, just that Turing is forgiven for having broken it. So while I guess this is better than nothing, I don't know if it's really the way to go about it. [1] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhans…

I think you may have hit on the crux of it. If any stronger repudiation were offered, would that be the government opening itself up to 25000 expensive lawsuits?

I hope so, it should pay, and heavily. If it was my tax pound I'd support this. The minimum amount of harm this discrimination caused is pretty high, and there is little than can be done to correct this. Financial compensation is about the best thing actually possible, so do it while the victims are still alive. The lame option of waiting until 99% of the victims are dead, then offering some kind of pardon is vastly more likely however.

Re: Royal pardon for codebreaker Alan Turing

#30

Post by stormbrew »

acheron wrote: post #18

75,000 men were convicted under the same law, of whom 26,000 are still alive. [1] Only Turing has been "pardoned". My understanding [2] is that the "pardon" implies there was nothing wrong with the law as such, just that Turing is forgiven for having broken it. So while I guess this is better than nothing, I don't know if it's really the way to go about it. [1] http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201314/ldhans…

So much this. It drives me nuts that the narrative on this issue always seems to boil down to the idea that Turing somehow earned not being persecuted for being gay through his efforts in the war and the injustice was that the government didn't live up to its end of the bargain, not the fact that he and many others were driven to suicide or horrible lives by this terrible law.
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