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Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

technet.microsoft.com

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Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#41

Post by kvb »

sergiotapia wrote: post #11
rshlo wrote: post #4

Looks nice. The problem with M$ is that over the years they've always offered simple tools for creating software, and then abandoning it somewhere along the way. Access is a great example.

I don't know why you were voted down. Had I invested heavily in learning Silverlight a couple of years ago, I would find myself with my thumb squarely secured up my own ass. I can't imagine spending so much time and effort learning how to use a framework only to have it discontinued in it's infancy. Silverlight dying was a good thing and ultimately it's a win for everybody as HTML is more open, but still - I feel for…

Don't blame Microsoft for the death of Silverlight, blame Apple. After the iPhone's release it didn't have a future. Is there a company that better supports its old technologies than Microsoft?

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#42

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Spearchucker wrote: post #36
TheAnimus wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't know why you were voted down. Had I invested heavily in learning Silverlight a couple of years ago, I would find myself with my thumb squarely secured up my own ass. Not really, as someone who specialised in WPF since it's latter beta stages, I still am finding plenty of work at a very good rate. Same thing goes with silverlight, even in a discontinued state, it still is going to have years and years of bug…

It's better than that - WPF and Silverlight skills are directly transferrable to Windows Phone and Windows RT. Yes, there are differences, limitations and in some cases more complete features, but the jump is negligible, with a herd of good resources on MSDN, StackOverflow and so on.

It's better than that. I find WPF to be the most flexible/powerful UI toolkit I've ever worked with (disclaimer: I work for Microsoft). If you ignore anything more complex than Canvas, Label, Rectangle, Image, you can cook up anything you want fairly easily (e.g. a tablet-based programming environment, a live programming editor), and actually have it look nice.

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#43

Post by rbanffy »

sergiotapia wrote: post #11
rshlo wrote: post #4

Looks nice. The problem with M$ is that over the years they've always offered simple tools for creating software, and then abandoning it somewhere along the way. Access is a great example.

I don't know why you were voted down. Had I invested heavily in learning Silverlight a couple of years ago, I would find myself with my thumb squarely secured up my own ass. I can't imagine spending so much time and effort learning how to use a framework only to have it discontinued in it's infancy. Silverlight dying was a good thing and ultimately it's a win for everybody as HTML is more open, but still - I feel for…

Don't be unfair. Microsoft still uses Silverlight. If, for instance, you go for the "Learn More" link, you'll be greeted by a "Silverlight required" block.

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#44

Post by locusm »

sergiotapia wrote: post #11
rshlo wrote: post #4

Looks nice. The problem with M$ is that over the years they've always offered simple tools for creating software, and then abandoning it somewhere along the way. Access is a great example.

I don't know why you were voted down. Had I invested heavily in learning Silverlight a couple of years ago, I would find myself with my thumb squarely secured up my own ass. I can't imagine spending so much time and effort learning how to use a framework only to have it discontinued in it's infancy. Silverlight dying was a good thing and ultimately it's a win for everybody as HTML is more open, but still - I feel for…

Lets not forget how they treated those that invested in Performance Point Server, most found out about its killing off via articles in the mainstream media!

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#45

Post by elipsey »

mikestew wrote: post #15
rshlo wrote: post #4

Looks nice. The problem with M$ is that over the years they've always offered simple tools for creating software, and then abandoning it somewhere along the way. Access is a great example.

Access is a horrible example (they still sell it, and it still works), and you have so many better ones to choose from. WinForms, Silverlight, and..., hmm that's all that really come to mind. Maybe FoxPro, but MSFT didn't create it and everyone expected them to kill it when they bought it (they kept it around for over ten years after). And "M$"? Am I going to have to go find the link to that Penny Arcade cartoon?

still funny. allow me:

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/22

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#47

Post by bobbles »

emmett wrote: post #2

I found this page most incomprehensible, so I looked around. A reasonable summary of what they're trying to build here is "HyperCard for the internet", which is actually a pretty cool idea. This article had the best short summary in my opinion: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/19/5227140/microsoft-project...

There is a list of sample apps available on the website which can give some other ideas how this might be useful: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/dn494958

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#48

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

evo_9 wrote: post #6
rshlo wrote: post #4

Looks nice. The problem with M$ is that over the years they've always offered simple tools for creating software, and then abandoning it somewhere along the way. Access is a great example.

MS Access hasn't been discontinued: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/access-help/what-s-new-in-... Also haven't we all tired of the hole 'M$' thing?

What versions of Office does Access come shipped with? I've rarely seen it in the wild since...a decade? And I work in a .Net shop.

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#49

Post by heartbreak »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #48
evo_9 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS Access hasn't been discontinued: http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/access-help/what-s-new-in-... Also haven't we all tired of the hole 'M$' thing?

What versions of Office does Access come shipped with? I've rarely seen it in the wild since...a decade? And I work in a .Net shop.

Office 365 Home Premium, Office Professional 2013, and a la carte for ~$100.

Re: Microsoft Project Siena (Beta)

#50

Post by was_hellbanned »

undoware wrote: post #33
jsmeaton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, it's not just small business. There are some very, very large players that still use Access that I'm aware of. Every thing you said still applies though.

I'm aware of this too -- there is a standing wave of businesses with technical debt from their smaller days. Much of the North American economy is underpinned by a volatile mixture of Act! ~2006, MS Access ~2003, and QuickBooks. None of these products like each other, and they are all obsolete. This is at least a big a deal as, e.g, South Korea's eternal love affair with Windows XP. It shapes the whole technoeconomic…

I have a relative who is still making very good money writing one-off custom applications for all sorts of local businesses. He works entirely in Visual Basic with an Access back-end. He doesn't even use .Net, it's all old-school VB.

With social tech sites like HN and /r/programming, we tend to forget that the business needs that drove the RAD CRUD-type apps of the 1990s never went away, it's just not interesting to talk about anymore.

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