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Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

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Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#91

Post by aaronbrethorst »

Semiapies wrote: post #89
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterexamples: 1) Every Bitcoin thread 2) Every NSA/Snowden thread Source (cough): I've been around for 6.3 years, am in the top 40 users in terms of net karma, and am actually very frustrated with the unfortunate turn the community has taken in the past 12-18 months. And am considering leaving, which makes me sad.

I've only been here slightly under five years, but I've lost track of how many people have made "unfortunate turn"/"this place is going downhill all of a sudden"/"Oh no, the proles have discovered the site" complaints over those years. That behavior certainly doesn't add anything to the site.

It's not all of a sudden. It's been the past couple years

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#92

Post by aaronbrethorst »

saraid216 wrote: post #87
Crito wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what either of those two topics has to do with this thread..

There is an unstated willingness to have content-less congratulatory posts on threads of those two topics. Usually puffed up with a few "look how smart I am" sentences. That said, I'm pretty sure my highest karma (~50) comment was a joke about Tau Day back in 2008. Soooooooo.

My highest scored comment ever was a one line throwaway at 250 or so. So I hear you.

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#93

Post by frankzinger »

gohrt wrote: post #72

Why is Telegram in the HNews so much? Are they part of the YC fraternity? Why do pay so much attention to crypto hucksters? It hasn't been so long since the last snake oil peddlers had their roasting -- I forget the name, it was some cutesy web-browser "secure" chat thing. It's cool to report debunkings, but if it weren't for HN, I (and most others?) never would have even seen these products in the first place.

"It hasn't been so long since the last snake oil peddlers had their roasting -- I forget the name, it was some cutesy web-browser "secure" chat thing."

Cryptocat?

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#94

Post by yatsyk »

onedev wrote: post #36
pjscott wrote: post #34

There's a lesson here. I genuinely don't mean to sound smug, but -- remember how confident the Telegram guys were? Remember how sure they were that their protocol would be able to resist the eavesdropping efforts of the NSA and whatever other nefarious interlopers may come along? Remember how they said they'd been working on it for years, and presumably expected for it to last many more years? Remember how that was,…

Never forget. RIP Telegram (2013-2013). This whole thing has been interesting to follow because it seems this same thing happens every time someone make macho Crypto-claims. From seeing how confident the Telegram team was to reading all the detractors who were so ready to criticize. It's an interesting dynamic in the Crypto community.

Hate tone discussion makes me sad.

Telegram is very young project and it has bugs for sure. Some guy found potential issue in protocol and developers committed to fix it soon. There is no information that any messages were revealed due to this bug but Telegram should go away and developers should do something else.

Whatsapp is less secure then Telegram but I have not seed “Whatsapp RIP” messages. Not so hard to save videos in snapchat but no one propose to close the application. About a year ago YAML vulnerability was found but no one proposed dhh to stop development and focus on race driver career.

I think that we need more competition for TextSecure.

Terms of bug bounty are very hard to satisfy even with bad protocol but Durov seems decided to play safe with such amount of money. Guy that found problem in MTproto doesn’t win money according to conditions of the bug bounty because message is not decrypted.

Disclaimer: I don’t have any affiliation with telegram besides living in the same city as telegram developers.

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#95

Post by aaronbrethorst »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #86
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thank you. i'd be very sad if i left, too.

I, too, would be sad. Why do you want to leave?

For the two reasons I mentioned in my OP. Thanks, too. It's very nice to hear.

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#96

Post by jaxb »

11001 wrote: post #41

Here are some of their comments: ibeatle Большое спасибо, автор поста полностью прав. Со своей стороны хотим пояснить, что сделано это было из лучших побуждений: исправление плохого рандома на клиентах. С настоящего момента в nonce всегда будет приходить ноль, и в следующем слое мы обязательно удалим это поле из схемы и поясним в документации. Автор топика безусловно заслужил награды, просьба обратиться хабраюзера x7…

and it's "backdoor", not "bookmark"

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#97

Post by sillysaurus2 »

yatsyk wrote: post #94
onedev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never forget. RIP Telegram (2013-2013). This whole thing has been interesting to follow because it seems this same thing happens every time someone make macho Crypto-claims. From seeing how confident the Telegram team was to reading all the detractors who were so ready to criticize. It's an interesting dynamic in the Crypto community.

Hate tone discussion makes me sad. Telegram is very young project and it has bugs for sure. Some guy found potential issue in protocol and developers committed to fix it soon. There is no information that any messages were revealed due to this bug but Telegram should go away and developers should do something else. Whatsapp is less secure then Telegram but I have not seed “Whatsapp RIP” messages. Not so hard to save…

You must not have followed Telegram much. From the beginning they've done nothing but pretend their protocol is absolutely secure ("military-grade encryption", "world's most secure protocol", etc) and rejected any attempt from the crypto community to help them fix problems before they endanger people.

So, let's put it this way: Was it ok of them to lie through their teeth to users? If so, then that's a sad state of marketing. If not, then what are you proposing here?

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#98

Post by eps »

sillysaurus2 wrote: post #97
yatsyk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate tone discussion makes me sad. Telegram is very young project and it has bugs for sure. Some guy found potential issue in protocol and developers committed to fix it soon. There is no information that any messages were revealed due to this bug but Telegram should go away and developers should do something else. Whatsapp is less secure then Telegram but I have not seed “Whatsapp RIP” messages. Not so hard to save…

You must not have followed Telegram much. From the beginning they've done nothing but pretend their protocol is absolutely secure ("military-grade encryption", "world's most secure protocol", etc) and rejected any attempt from the crypto community to help them fix problems before they endanger people. So, let's put it this way: Was it ok of them to lie through their teeth to users? If so, then that's a sad state of m…

Hey, you forgot to plug TextSecure.

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#99

Post by chmike »

yatsyk wrote: post #94
onedev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never forget. RIP Telegram (2013-2013). This whole thing has been interesting to follow because it seems this same thing happens every time someone make macho Crypto-claims. From seeing how confident the Telegram team was to reading all the detractors who were so ready to criticize. It's an interesting dynamic in the Crypto community.

Hate tone discussion makes me sad. Telegram is very young project and it has bugs for sure. Some guy found potential issue in protocol and developers committed to fix it soon. There is no information that any messages were revealed due to this bug but Telegram should go away and developers should do something else. Whatsapp is less secure then Telegram but I have not seed “Whatsapp RIP” messages. Not so hard to save…

Thank you yatsyk, I share your opinion. The app name is really great. I hope they fix it and come back with a stronger app.

I would suggest they hire security consultats to check the security in a first stage. Review by third parties is the best method to avoid things we overlooked. The prize shoud be for after all these consultancy options have been exhausted.

As a side node I see there is still a lot of room to improve automatic translation. It's difficult to understand in some places.

Re: Telegram protocol defeated. Authors are going to modify crypto-algorithm

#100

Post by flux_w42 »

hawkharris wrote: post #40
onedev wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never forget. RIP Telegram (2013-2013). This whole thing has been interesting to follow because it seems this same thing happens every time someone make macho Crypto-claims. From seeing how confident the Telegram team was to reading all the detractors who were so ready to criticize. It's an interesting dynamic in the Crypto community.

RIP Telegram (2013-2013) would make an interesting T-shirt. No one except a few cryptography buffs might understand it, but it would be a funny way to start conversations about information security.

Would indeed be interesting to get to know some other cryptography-interetsted people on the bus, metro and other public places, so here you go: http://teespring.com/riptelegram
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