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Having a Servant Is Not a Right

nytimes.com

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Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#21

Post by gress »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #17
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich, poor, American, Kazakh, it doesn't matter. If you are arrested you are strip searched to protect you, the prison staff, and the other prisoners. There are different kinds of diplomatic immunity. Hers was explicitly limited to official work. The run-Americans-over-and-get-off-scot-free kind is a different diplomatic designation.

If you are arrested you are strip searched to protect you, the prison staff, and the other prisoners. Given that it obviously doesn't at all work at keeping stuff out of jails, would you entertain the idea that the reason behind standardising strip-search might be more psychological in nature.

This is false, It's not a given that it doesn't work at all. This measure could well be dramatically reducing the amount of stuff in jails. Just because there are other ways to bring things in that haven't been prevented yet does not imply that all measures are ineffective.

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#22

Post by toufka »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #17
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rich, poor, American, Kazakh, it doesn't matter. If you are arrested you are strip searched to protect you, the prison staff, and the other prisoners. There are different kinds of diplomatic immunity. Hers was explicitly limited to official work. The run-Americans-over-and-get-off-scot-free kind is a different diplomatic designation.

If you are arrested you are strip searched to protect you, the prison staff, and the other prisoners. Given that it obviously doesn't at all work at keeping stuff out of jails, would you entertain the idea that the reason behind standardising strip-search might be more psychological in nature.

A jail is different from a prison. I would expect such searches to work quite well, and to (possibly) be a reasonable part of jailing someone.

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#23

Post by bradleyjg »

al2o3cr wrote: post #14

"India is furious that the diplomat, Devyani Khobragade, was strip-searched and kept in a cell in New York with criminals." Because wage theft isn't at all like those nasty crimes everybody else does, amirite? Well, it is slightly different - it's only committable by people who have enough cash to pay wages. So in short: "waddya mean I'm a criminal? I'M RICH!"

In fact it's highly unlikely she was put in a cell with convicted inmates. In all likelihood she was placed with others awaiting arraignment, with an outside possibility that the cell also had pre-trial detainees (i.e. those who were denied or couldn't make bail).

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#24

Post by wozniacki »

bane wrote: post #7

> Last week, I watched with bewilderment as India’s most vociferous talk show host, Arnab Goswami, repeatedly asked his guests if they expected an Indian diplomat who is paid $4,180 a month to pay her domestic servant $4,500 a month. Meanwhile an American guest, Lisa Curtis, a senior fellow at the Heritage Foundation, tried to make a point: “If somebody cannot afford to have domestic help, then they don’t have domest…

Only a few days before Khobragade’s choreographed detention, New York’s heady prosecutors drew up a litany of charges of medical- insurance fraud against 49 Russian diplomats to the tune of $1.5 million. These 49 Russians now figure in a criminal complaint unsealed in the same Manhattan court, where India’s acting consul general was produced for a $250,000 bail hearing last week. Of these, 11 Russian diplomats continue to work at the Russian consulate in New York or at Moscow’s permanent mission to the United Nations in the Turtle Bay area of Manhattan.

So when Preet Bharara, the attorney for the Southern District of New York, unsealed the criminal complaint against the Russians in court in his usual flashy style, reporters who cover Bharara expected at least a few of the 11 Russians still within the reach of New York’s law enforcement to be paraded before them: it would have been a precursor to Khobragade’s arrest and subsequent bail. But nothing of that sort happened. Instead, when Bharara’s men set out in quest of the alleged offenders, with handcuffs in their pockets, they were promptly restrained by the US state department, according to authoritative sources who spoke to this writer. The state department told Bharara’s office that all the 11 serving Russian diplomats on US soil had diplomatic immunity and could not be arrested.[1]

This entire Khobragade incident reeks of political grandstanding. Someone wanted to divert attention away from a certain incident - either connected to politics in India or in the region - and used this to help orchestrate it.

Kinda like how Martha Stewart was incarcerated to make a larger point.[2]

[1] http://www.telegraphindia.com/1131218/jsp/opinion/story_1769...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/06/nyregion/us-charges-dozens...

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Stewart#Sentence

Edit : added url

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#25

Post by asimov42 »

Isn't it obvious this is the result of a country of extremely low average income and extremely high population?

Of course it would be great to have even a semblance of equality, but I dont see a solution given the current economic model.

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#26

Post by gaadd33 »

FrankenPC wrote: post #9
moocowduckquack wrote: post #5

Arresting a diplomat will always cause problems but it was absolutely inexcusable for this diplomat to expect to get away with underpaying their housekeeper. That said, strip-searching someone over a wage dispute is far beyond the pale as well. And strip-searching an Indian diplomat for no particularly good reason during an arrest, is not just wrong, but also really fucking stupid, as it could have actual security im…

Our authoritarian oligarchy is spilling over into the international community. First the wars, then the NSA, now violating laws of diplomatic immunity. If I weren't a level headed guy, I'd have to say that on the OUTSIDE, The USA is starting to look like an insane imperialist nation.

What laws of diplomatic immunity were violated? Are diplomats immune to every law in the country they are in?

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#27

Post by josh2600 »

al2o3cr wrote: post #14

"India is furious that the diplomat, Devyani Khobragade, was strip-searched and kept in a cell in New York with criminals." Because wage theft isn't at all like those nasty crimes everybody else does, amirite? Well, it is slightly different - it's only committable by people who have enough cash to pay wages. So in short: "waddya mean I'm a criminal? I'M RICH!"

This brings to mind the famous Johnnie Cochran quote:

"In America you are innocent until proven broke".

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#28

Post by imsofuture »

sliverstorm wrote: post #20
al2o3cr wrote: post #14

"India is furious that the diplomat, Devyani Khobragade, was strip-searched and kept in a cell in New York with criminals." Because wage theft isn't at all like those nasty crimes everybody else does, amirite? Well, it is slightly different - it's only committable by people who have enough cash to pay wages. So in short: "waddya mean I'm a criminal? I'M RICH!"

Well, it's white-collar crime. Even Americans are not entirely happy with white-collar criminals getting thrown in with blue-collar criminals. Not because of classism, just because white-collar criminals are non-violent and it doesn't seem right to throw an embezzler in with cutthroats & muggers.

Cutthroats aren't a thing, and muggers are desperately impoverished. It's classism.

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#29

Post by sleepyK »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #10
moocowduckquack wrote: post #5

Arresting a diplomat will always cause problems but it was absolutely inexcusable for this diplomat to expect to get away with underpaying their housekeeper. That said, strip-searching someone over a wage dispute is far beyond the pale as well. And strip-searching an Indian diplomat for no particularly good reason during an arrest, is not just wrong, but also really fucking stupid, as it could have actual security im…

Rich, poor, American, Kazakh, it doesn't matter. If you are arrested you are strip searched to protect you, the prison staff, and the other prisoners. There are different kinds of diplomatic immunity. Hers was explicitly limited to official work. The run-Americans-over-and-get-off-scot-free kind is a different diplomatic designation.

And yet Raymond Davis went scot free when the Americans claimed that he had diplomatic immunity.

Let's just take this for what it was, a District Attorney trying to gain as much publicity as possible.

The Saudis have been committing graver abuse of their domestic help for years, but nobody in America has had the balls to come out and cavity search an oil rich Saudi yet.

Re: Having a Servant Is Not a Right

#30

Post by jordanb »

An important thing to clear up here is that Khobragade was not a full "diplomat" at the time of her arrest but rather a "consular official" who receives a limited type of immunity that only applies to laws broken while carrying out official duties.

Also the most serious charge against her isn't the wage dispute but perjury resulting from incorrect data she put on the visa forms.

India has subsequently promoted her from the NY consulate to the Indian diplomatic mission to the UN and has claimed retroactive diplomatic immunity for her, but there are procedural questions about this move.

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