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Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

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271–280 of 340 posts

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the general arc of "gentrification". First, a few places in the neighborhood are rehabbed by developers. Next the "...Burning Man hippies, self-styled artists, people who graduated from great schools with useless majors, and the usual constituent of the ... overprivileged..." move in to the rehabbed areas and the (usually) blacks have to move out. These hippy - artist types make the neighborhood more attracti…

I've noticed that the truly down-and-out seem to take further misfortune in stride. They expect it.

and we should expect them to!

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#272
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California, Google's employment contract already covers that explicitly.

And they do claim ownership?

Yes. But the location or equipment aren't relevant.

cdibona has a good writeup here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1970191

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#273
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really sure what to make of this!

You're not sure what to make of what?

Well if you misread my comment but don't tell us what you thought it said, I can't put your response in context.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#274
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are Burning Man hippies, self-styled artists, people who graduated from great schools with useless majors This is such a stupid position to take. First of all, do you realize that those "Burning Man Hippies" are, uh, literally the people who started google? Do you realize that google has made enormous donations to those "burning man hippies"? And yes, "uesless degrees". History, art, literature, these are all…

I think by "useless," he meant, "useless for purposes of making money."

Apple made a lot of money by not thinking this way, and other big companies in SV have started to notice. Skilled industrial/UX designers often come out of a humanities or art major. In fact, so do developers, product managers, and marketing staff.

Blame the protesters for throwing bricks into a bus window, but don't blame their majors.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#275
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but your statement about the longshoremen, that's certainly wrong. No, it's right. ILWU (the union) leadership has made statements such as "Organization from outside groups attempting to co-opt our struggle in order to advance a broader agenda is quite another and one that is destructive to our democratic process and jeopardizes our over two year struggle in Longview." [1] So I may not have been right about them s…

The Longview comment is from the Longview, Washington Union rep, not Oakland. The driver interviewed there is also not a longshoreman, and very likely not repped by a union at all. The Occupy Oakland movement was not a monolithic group of dreadlocked, burning man, trustafarians as you implied, but it's a convenient mis-characterization, as is your implication that the Union was only interested in avoiding alienating…

The port shutdown was about the truckers, though there was some ILWU support - I have personally met ILWU leaders who were in support.

The truckers are not allowed to unionize, are employed as "independent contractors", sometimes have to sit with their engines running, idle, trying to get into the port for hours without being able to pee. They are treated as if they operate a small business while they are in actuality an employee with none of the rights of a typical employee.

The ILWU also doesn't oppose the city or state government interfering with a port shutdown because without the ability to shut down a port, they would not exist.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#276
post #4

It would be much better to have 100 more cars on the road during rush hour, right?

By providing free transportation from SF Google employees are encouraged to live there. Why not live closer to work? It would probably result in a few more cars on the road but a lot of the employees would move closer to Google freeing up apartments for people who actually work at businesses in SF and HAVE to live there. NB: I have no stake in this, I like in Ireland.

> Why not live closer to work?

1) Maybe they got the job at Google half way through their year lease in SF and are relying on the bus to get to work for 6 months until they can move.

2) Maybe they are fresh out of college and still live in their family home in SF and are only using the bus to get to their new job while they save up enough to move closer.

3) Maybe they live in SF because it is equal distance from their job south and their partner's job north or east.

4) Maybe they are in that group of people that thinks jobs come and go but your home is your home. These people don't move closer to their job.

That said, nobody HAS to live in SF. A fair number of people actually commute INTO SF.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#277
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These kids never worked a day in their life, though. Their parents provided them with all the tools to succeed, but they still managed to fuck it up. They have no desire to improve themselves, they simply want to continue to leech off of whatever person will tolerate them the longest. Sickening.

Exactly. They want a free lunch off the hard work of others. Otherwise they would have been on their way to work this morning, not vandalizing a bus.

As we all know, all jobs begin at 8 and end at 5, there are no other wage-earning options available.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#278
post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These are Burning Man hippies, self-styled artists, people who graduated from great schools with useless majors This is such a stupid position to take. First of all, do you realize that those "Burning Man Hippies" are, uh, literally the people who started google? Do you realize that google has made enormous donations to those "burning man hippies"? And yes, "uesless degrees". History, art, literature, these are all…

I think by "useless," he meant, "useless for purposes of making money."

Are they making anything else with it? I mean, except for smashing windows and annoying a bunch of sleepy coders? I'm ok with "not everything is money" but what they have to show in non-money part? Usually their "anti-capitalism" is just another way of saying "I'd work as little as the society allows me without going hungry and do stupid shit like breaking windows and defacing other's property when I'm too bored".

My experience is that people who actually can do stuff with their life (degree or not) don't go around smashing windows. They are too busy doing their thing to spend time on breaking other's things.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#279
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but your statement about the longshoremen, that's certainly wrong. No, it's right. ILWU (the union) leadership has made statements such as "Organization from outside groups attempting to co-opt our struggle in order to advance a broader agenda is quite another and one that is destructive to our democratic process and jeopardizes our over two year struggle in Longview." [1] So I may not have been right about them s…

The Longview comment is from the Longview, Washington Union rep, not Oakland. The driver interviewed there is also not a longshoreman, and very likely not repped by a union at all. The Occupy Oakland movement was not a monolithic group of dreadlocked, burning man, trustafarians as you implied, but it's a convenient mis-characterization, as is your implication that the Union was only interested in avoiding alienating…

I don't think you're effectively rebutting my larger point, which is that these protesters represent themselves as being of one population, when they are in fact of another. Certainly, if I change my statement to "some port workers" were economically damaged by the protest, purportedly on their behalf, in which they did not participate or call for, the point remains. Regarding the "convenient mis-characterization" -- my girlfriend worked in a major union for five years, specifically in the communications department; I know very well how to read statements made by, and on behalf of, union leaders. The kind of tension and political tiptoeing I described certainly exists.

The mere fact that we can point to two statements, one expressing support for Occupy, and one denouncing a specific Occupy action, by definition means that there is a conflict in strategy and tactics.

Now, I will grant that this is all based on my opinion and observation -- none of it is empirical or measured. So what? Supply some measurements if you think that my opinion is illegitimate. Tell me what percentage of Occupiers are actually from traditionally poor background -- those who suffer systemic disenfranchisement, a lack of role models, have insufficient access to education -- you know, the people who they claim to represent. If this is such a diverse movement of the working poor, go ahead and let me know how the demographics of self-identified Occupiers compares to that of East Oakland (the poorest neighborhood in Oakland.) Shit, speaking of diversity: I would be surprised to learn if even a single percentage of them were multilingual!

I'm all for advocating on behalf of those who have been systematically locked out of opportunity, who have never been able to access the things we all take for granted, which have made it possible for us to be so successful. The people I see at Occupy events are poor, but it doesn't seem to me that it's for a for lack of access. They are bitching, basically, because the opportunities for very well privileged slackers to get by decently without putting in too much effort have all dried up. The rest of us -- poor and working rich -- are busting our asses off.

Happy to be proven wrong, but these are my observations, and yes my biases too.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#280
post #112

West Oakland is a traditionally black neighborhood that surrounds the Port of Oakland. It has been heavily gentrified, developed, and restructured over the past three decades. Now there is an upper class enclave that has been established near the West Oakland BART station, in Jack London, and in the city of Emeryville. Oh fuck you and your dreadlocks. There are only two photos on that page, so I don't definitively kn…

Re: The port shutdown: The longshoremen's union supported the Occupy shutdown, but were contractually obligated not to participate in the protest. Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/occupy-oakland-shuts-down-port/ Since almost everything else you said is anecdotal, it's hard for me to respond to, but your statement about the longshoremen, that's certainly wrong. In general, the people that you are deriding and caric…

So the claim here is that wave zero, original inhabitants don't have "excellent restaurants, concert venues, botiques, bars etc.", and their displacement by the first wave is excusable by this fact, and some hand-waving about "solidarity."

On the other hand, the second-wave and later are callous Scrooges who just take what they can get, and thus deserve to be vilified.

This is special pleading at its most naked. I've heard the saying that you pull up the drawbridge just after you enter the castle, but you seem to want to scrape out a privileged little Goldilocks zone on both sides, where first-wavers are each an embodiment of a noble Jake Sully, fighting to save the Na'vi against the invading hordes.

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