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Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

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Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#191

Post by Crito »

etjossem wrote: post #172
Crito wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is advocating more restrictions (not enforced by law or company policy, admittedly, but driven by community violence) on housing options for Google employees. Whether the remaining options are owned by Google, or a limited set of independent corporations and landlords is of little consequence. The result is that the employee is forced to live closer to work instead of where they please, serving as a constant remin…

> Why not live closer to work? If you ask those aboard the Google bus, you'll get various answers, like "I don't mind the commute" or "I love SF, there's so much to do here." > Why not live in San Francisco? Tech workers in Mountain View will give you "I'd rather spend time with my family than on the road" or "I don't really want to live in a large city" or any number of totally individual, valid, human reasons. I do…

The point is that these people live where they chose to live. There are many reasons that they factor into their decision, but it remains their decision. Not the decision of some trust-fund professional protesters.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#192

Post by greenyoda »

bluedino wrote: post #94
null_ptr wrote: post #58

Gotta love “TECHIES: Your World Is Not Welcome Here” I find it hard to sympathize with a bunch of lazy thugs who do nothing to improve their situation. Engineering and white collar jobs in general have always paid well. Industries who are in demand even more so, and for just reason. Did similar protests happen in Detroit 50 years ago during the auto boom? Did unskilled rubes that do nothing all day put up banners say…

>> Did unskilled rubes that do nothing all day put up banners saying "Auto boys not welcome"? 'Auto boys' are/were unskilled rubes. Whites weren't holding up signs saying 'blacks not welcome'. They just left. It was 50 years ago, after all. edit: They were, up to a point.

"'Auto boys' are/were unskilled rubes."

You need a lot more skill to work in an auto plant than you need for serving up fast food. 50 years ago, auto production wasn't nearly as automated as it is today, so the guys on the assembly lines needed to know how to do welding and other skilled trades. Robots do a lot more of that stuff today.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#193

Post by baddox »

Crito wrote: post #152
etjossem wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think baddox is necessarily suggesting corporate housing, just housing that doesn't involve an hour-plus commute each way. Living closer to your workplace gives you a few extra hours each week - it's your choice whether to spend them at work or home.

He is advocating more restrictions (not enforced by law or company policy, admittedly, but driven by community violence) on housing options for Google employees. Whether the remaining options are owned by Google, or a limited set of independent corporations and landlords is of little consequence. The result is that the employee is forced to live closer to work instead of where they please, serving as a constant remin…

> He is advocating more restrictions

Not at all. What makes you think that? The only thing I'm advocating is that if your non-work life is important to you (like it is with most people), eliminating commute time is one obvious way to expand that part of your life.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#194

Post by bilbo0s »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #153
jessedhillon wrote: post #48

West Oakland is a traditionally black neighborhood that surrounds the Port of Oakland. It has been heavily gentrified, developed, and restructured over the past three decades. Now there is an upper class enclave that has been established near the West Oakland BART station, in Jack London, and in the city of Emeryville. Oh fuck you and your dreadlocks. There are only two photos on that page, so I don't definitively kn…

Fun writeup. Wrong attitude. Silicon Valley technology, this is Manhattan finance with a word of advice. We know the roots of the problem are housing supply restrictions and a lack of mass transit. In essence, City Hall problems. So why are they able to pin the blame on you? Because you're painting a target on your back. Ducking your heads makes you a low-risk scapegoat. Scoffing at the less fortunate, regardless of…

In Houston I, and several others who live behind the gates on Sunset, have taken to volunteering A LOT of time in Third Ward for this very reason. You're a lot tougher target when your head is raised and you have a track record of advocating for the REAL underprivileged. Because chances are, the people denigrating you would never dare go to a place like Third Ward. (Which is a shame... because the people there are quite nice actually.)

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#195

Post by Crito »

baddox wrote: post #193
Crito wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is advocating more restrictions (not enforced by law or company policy, admittedly, but driven by community violence) on housing options for Google employees. Whether the remaining options are owned by Google, or a limited set of independent corporations and landlords is of little consequence. The result is that the employee is forced to live closer to work instead of where they please, serving as a constant remin…

> He is advocating more restrictions Not at all. What makes you think that? The only thing I'm advocating is that if your non-work life is important to you (like it is with most people), eliminating commute time is one obvious way to expand that part of your life.

They have that option currently. The employees who do not live close to their work made the decision that commute time was not their primary concern.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#196

Post by bonemachine »

jessedhillon wrote: post #137
bonemachine wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are Burning Man hippies, self-styled artists, people who graduated from great schools with useless majors, and the usual constituent of the Bay Area's overprivileged poverty tourists: 20-30 y/o white kids from middle class families. Oh, get off it, man. All that we "know" about the perpetrators at this point is that they were apparently (1) young and (2) non-black. As to the rest the attributes you impute to th…

a) I have no objection to this phrase and will edit my comment thus. b) I'm reacting to the race card being employed by people who are tokenizing and mascotifying (to coin phrase) the same people who they themselves pushed out!

I'd just prefer that we stick to the main point -- that the "anarchists"' actions were basically thuggish and coercive in nature, that is to say, anything but "anarchistic." Anything else (e.g. speculation as to their education or class background) is a distraction from what should be the key takeaway here.

But overall, fair enough, and thanks for the clarifying edit.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#197

Post by baddox »

Crito wrote: post #66
baddox wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a longer commute arguably makes workers' lives revolve more around their job.

Far less so than having to live where you work, rather than being able to live where you want to live. Particularly since they have a bus to ride. People get on the backs of companies like Foxconn for corporate housing, but that is essentially what they are proposing that Google employees endure. And why? Because as "non-natives", Google employees somehow become some sort of second class citizen in the minds of these…

It's obviously a balance. Usually the reason you want to live somewhere has something to do with activities you want to perform while physically being there. So if you're working 10 hours a day and commuting 2 hours a day, that leaves you four hours a day to actually be awake where you live. At some point it's not worth living somewhere you like if you're only going to actually be there a tiny portion of each day.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#198

Post by baddox »

gohrt wrote: post #104
null_ptr wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. They want a free lunch off the hard work of others. Otherwise they would have been on their way to work this morning, not vandalizing a bus.

Please don't marginalized the un/underemployed. There is unemployment in the US, and not everyone can or should be an entrepeneur. (Heck, plenty of us wealthy tech workers would not succeed as entrepeneurs). The noblesse oblige is to demonstrate leadership by creating opportunities for honest workers. Edit for clarity: null_ptr implied that the alternative to this behavior is "going to work". Other possibilities are…

Do you think that protesting a Google bus is a better usage of time for the unemployed than, say, improving one's marketable skills are applying for jobs?

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#199

Post by pslam »

9999 wrote: post #112
jessedhillon wrote: post #48

West Oakland is a traditionally black neighborhood that surrounds the Port of Oakland. It has been heavily gentrified, developed, and restructured over the past three decades. Now there is an upper class enclave that has been established near the West Oakland BART station, in Jack London, and in the city of Emeryville. Oh fuck you and your dreadlocks. There are only two photos on that page, so I don't definitively kn…

Re: The port shutdown: The longshoremen's union supported the Occupy shutdown, but were contractually obligated not to participate in the protest. Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/occupy-oakland-shuts-down-port/ Since almost everything else you said is anecdotal, it's hard for me to respond to, but your statement about the longshoremen, that's certainly wrong. In general, the people that you are deriding and caric…

> "Think of the excellent restaurants, concert venues, boutiques, bars, etc. that exist in Oakland now--that's first wave gentrification. Those people are also historically more aware of their surroundings and the culture that they are moving into and tend to show solidarity with the lower income residents that they are paving the way towards displacement for. On the other hand, the second wave of gentrifiers tends to dramatically increase the cost of living, rate of displacement, and tends to care very little about the plight of their fellow citizens."

First wave? Only if you define "first wave" to coincide with the current discussion. There was a wave of bio-tech (e.g Genentech) shortly before the "tech" (e.g Google) wave.

This goes back all the way to the founding of California, the state. The '49ers were the first wave. Since then there has been a sadly repeating history of picking on a group to blame for any ill in society - usually racist - but it appears this time around it's a soft target.

Re: Google Bus blocked, window smashed in West Oakland

#200

Post by Futurebot »

Ultimately, the issue comes down to housing supply - a problem created both by long-time locals and municipal governments. It's the same exact story in other places, particularly here in Manhattan. Would this problem exist if the number of apartments/houses kept up with the number of people who wanted them? There are answers to this dilemma, but they are politically unpalatable to many. See a previous comment of mine for more:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6549063

Short version: build a lot more, and put a regulation in place to keep the "look" of the new buildings similar/the same to the current neighborhood/buildings being replaced.

People want to live in these places. People need to be near jobs. People will avoid commuting if they can. People want to be near cultural institutions. Many people want to be near lots of other people. Look at the housing shortage in North Dakota - before the energy boom, no shortage. People move in because of jobs - shortage, and very high prices. In that case, building, rather than policies did not keep up (there are answers here as well, particularly prefab / modular housing.)

The number of people in cities (particularly large ones, but smaller ones as well) continues to grow (again, see link.) Our policies (in particular) need to adjust.

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