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Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

open.bufferapp.com

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Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#291

Post by davemel37 »

rguzman wrote: post #259
davemel37 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a boss bully his employees with fellow employee salary information. (i.e. bill took a pay cut because of the recessions, so should you...) As far as I'm concerned, salary is a completely private matter that is no one elses business, and no good could possibly come from sharing it. I see this openness at buffer essentially being a tool for management to deny raise requests, etc... with... If we do it for you, we…

> I see this openness at buffer essentially being a tool for management to deny raise requests, etc... with... If we do it for you, we have to do it for everybody... which is a just a BS excuse to not face the reality that every persons value and work situation is different, and should be treated differently. Their salary formula accounts for experience, company performance, and role. Having the openness and formula…

"Having the openness and formula makes it easy to say no to arbitrary salary-increase requests"

It more likely makes arbitrary excuses to deny legitimate salary increase requests.

I think this forces unnecessary arbitrary restrictions on an already difficult process. I highly suspect this is simply an excuse for management to avoid uncomfortable conversations and very difficult decisions...

I can foresee about a dozen likely HR nightmares that can surface from this transparency.

Personally, I would never want to work at a place where everyone in the room knows how much I make...especially if many can't appreciate or quantify the value I create.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#293

Post by kapilkale »

joelgascoigne wrote: post #270
kapilkale wrote: post #37

Seems unwise to have a CEO co-founder be the highest salaried employee at a startup. That person's equity position is probably at least an order of magnitude higher than the other employees. As an investor or employee, I'd find this alarming. http://techcrunch.com/2008/09/08/peter-thiel-best-predictor-... Call me old fashioned, but I think co-founders should be paid living expenses + 25%, even in a series-A funded st…

Joel here. This is a really interesting point, I've thought about it a lot. From the linked article: "In Startupland, everybody should be working towards the same goal: that big juicy exit. That’s the only payday any CEO should be worried about (even though more than half of them will never get it)." I can't agree with that, and this is a key reason I spoke with others in the team and we decided that my salary as wel…

Hi Joel- thanks for being open to the feedback.

Like you said, you are in growth mode. To me, growth mode means reinvesting as much of the profits as possible back into the company. Paying yourself a large salary during this time is the same as taking money off the table.

There are some good reasons to take money off the table, like paying back personal debt or supporting family members. But paying yourself more because you're the CEO doesn't seem like a good one, because your equity position is so significant.

If you don't have a good reason to take money off the table, it signals to employees and investors that "Joel thinks the money is better spent going into his personal bank account vs. making the company's equity grow in value." That sort of logic doesn't work in a startup that is targeting high growth, where employees are hoping to receive some sort of payoff from their equity. Moreover, it casts doubt on your judgment in capital allocation, which is one of the most important responsibilities of a founder / CEO. *

Obviously, all of this logic falls apart if you're not working on a startup. Low growth businesses that have achieved much of their potential are a totally different story. But you aren't starting a restaurant. Even Uber, at its $4B valuation, is giving compensation packages that are weighted towards options vs. salary.

* http://www.amazon.com/The-Outsiders-Unconventional-Radically...

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#294

Post by philwelch »

codex wrote: post #258
hnriot wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Everyone I know over 40 wouldn't dare talk about their salary, or how much they paid for their house, etc. Everyone I know under 30 will happily talk about it to anyone and everyone" That's because they (the <30's) grew up with FB and are used to sharing everything with the world.

Some things you just don't share with anyone. That's one of the reasons we still wear clothes.

I wear clothes largely for the benefit of others, personally. And because it gets cold.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#295

Post by minimaxir »

krisgee wrote: post #265
simoncion wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that market rate for a junior (0->2 years experience) web developer is ~$110k + benefits. You are not hilariously overcompensated. Ignore the various salary estimate sites. There's no way that they have an accurate view of the world.

Are you serious? I'd feel like a fucking idiot walking out of university with a brand new degree and demanding 100k off the bat. I guess the market is different outside SV though right?

For fresh 2013 Carnegie Mellon CS graduates, mean salary was $94k, median was $100k.

http://www.cmu.edu/career/salaries-and-destinations/2013-sur...

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#296

Post by grecy »

laureny wrote: post #285
grecy wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to imply that just because the employees know all the salaries, they have more control. This is not accurate. No. I'm saying that because the employees know all the salaries, the employer has less control. The employer can no longer dictate terms and make secret differing deals with different parties.

> No. I'm saying that because the employees know all the salaries, the employer has less control. How does the employer have less control when he is unilaterally deciding what the formula is and he can stonewall any request to discuss salary by hiding behind that formula? "You know what, Dave, I know you want more money but I just decided to add a negative 'is disrepectful of superiors' factor' and your salary just w…

> How does the employer have less control when he is unilaterally deciding what the formula is and he can stonewall any request to discuss salary by hiding behind that formula?

Once everyone knows the employer is doing that kind of BS, they will go elsewhere, and the employer will be left with no employees.

Employment is not some kind of privilege we should be thankful for. Remember that.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#297

Post by philwelch »

krisgee wrote: post #265
simoncion wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that market rate for a junior (0->2 years experience) web developer is ~$110k + benefits. You are not hilariously overcompensated. Ignore the various salary estimate sites. There's no way that they have an accurate view of the world.

Are you serious? I'd feel like a fucking idiot walking out of university with a brand new degree and demanding 100k off the bat. I guess the market is different outside SV though right?

In Seattle, you can get similar money and rent is cheaper.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#299

Post by steveklabnik »

VexXtreme wrote: post #282
tikhonj wrote: post #134

I've always felt the culture of hiding salaries was doing a significant disservice to employees. It creates a significant and largely artificial information disparity, giving a major market advantage to the employer. In turn, this makes the entire labor market less efficient for the employee. This also makes the employer less accountable to the employees. The employer can easily pay somebody significantly more or les…

At my company discussing salary is grounds for instant termination. It's specified in our contracts. People still talk though.

This is probably not enforceable: http://www.lexisnexis.com/legalnewsroom/labor-employment/b/l...

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#300

Post by seunosewa »

philwelch wrote: post #294
codex wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some things you just don't share with anyone. That's one of the reasons we still wear clothes.

I wear clothes largely for the benefit of others, personally. And because it gets cold.

That's the same reason why many people don't share their salaries: for the benefit of others (who might get jealous).
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