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Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

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Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#231

Post by sliverstorm »

troupe wrote: post #214
sliverstorm wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked as an intern once, had one of the full-timers complimenting my work and saying I was just as sharp/skilled as him at the job. I knew he was getting paid a lot more than me. The multiplier was probably a whole number . Yes, he was on-call and I wasn't. Yes, there are always other good reasons too. But it still rankled to be doing close to the same work, and paid so much less. As you say I made sure to stay igno…

I think you are trying to say that he made at least 2x what you were making. I would be very surprised to find an intern making more than half of what the person they are interning under makes and normally I'd expect it to be much less. Typically you aren't working at an internship because you have a proven track record of skills in a certain area. That is kind of the point of doing an internship. And having a proven…

At least 2x, possibly 3x, possibly more.

You don't have to justify it, I understand all the bullet points. I'm just corroborating the parent's statement that willful ignorance of someone else's wages can be a useful coping mechanism. Because no matter how many justifications there are, it still stung.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#232

Post by umsm »

philip1209 wrote: post #197
suprgeek wrote: post #55

Excellent concept - but one major Caveat. Why in the world would you publish it for all the world to see? Keep it internal to the company - you have an expectation of privacy from your employer and this post just ruined it completely. I hope they got written signed releases from every one of those folks whose private info they broadcast to the world.

I think it's bad that they are essentially publishing whether an employee opted for additional stock or additional cash. Should it be a red flag that the CTO turned down stock in favor of more cash?

Why should it be a red flag?

Statistically speaking, you're more likely to make more money by getting a bigger salary now instead of a big payday that may never happen. Statistically, very very few companies will be large enough for employees to cash out.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#233

Post by juliebug »

As someone who uses Buffer (free version) on a regular basis, I have to say that I'm fairly amused that it appears as though none of the commenters here have actually read much, if anything, about Buffer. They have quite a lot of information about corporate culture that would have answered some of the questions and concerns posted here. Further, they're a distributed workforce (which I don't think anyone picked up on -- this explains emails vs. face to face conversations).

Some extra reading for you folks:

http://bufferapp.com/about/#our-philosophy (scroll down to the 9 Buffer Values)

http://www.slideshare.net/joelg2/buffer-culture-01-16707113

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#234

Post by umsm »

qq66 wrote: post #184
swombat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would only be upset because you currently work in a company with a culture that doesn't value transparency as a core value. If you worked in a company like Buffer or GrantTree, you'd be wondering why others are so secretive about their salaries, and find yourself more and more disliking the idea of working for a company which is not transparent. Habit is a powerful thing. Change your surroundings and you'll chang…

"Why don't you borrow money for a car from Cousin Ricky? I read online that he has a fancy job in San Francisco paying him $98,433, he can't say no." "Why don't we break into this guy's apartment? I read online that he makes $98,433 and he should have some expensive stuff in there." "Hello Sir, sorry to call at dinnertime but I'd like to offer you a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to buy the timeshare of your dreams.…

Why would you use salary to determine if someone is a big spender or not? Look at their car / home and see if it's worth the risk.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#235

Post by dinkumthinkum »

tootie wrote: post #86
ricardobeat wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have engineers in the UK, Taiwan, Ireland and Colorado. If they all lived in SF the salaries would be above $100k.

I'm one of maybe 10-12 architects at some stupid company and I make more than everyone at Buffer including the CEO.

I know, this seems like an anti-recruiting blog post. Working at Buffer not only means you have to be a part of a hippy groupthink ideology that you have to share your salaries with the whole world (this is not a government institution) and it will be posted on a popular website in your field, you will also earn much less than expected.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#236

Post by city41 »

davemel37 wrote: post #156
tikhonj wrote: post #134

I've always felt the culture of hiding salaries was doing a significant disservice to employees. It creates a significant and largely artificial information disparity, giving a major market advantage to the employer. In turn, this makes the entire labor market less efficient for the employee. This also makes the employer less accountable to the employees. The employer can easily pay somebody significantly more or les…

I had a boss bully his employees with fellow employee salary information. (i.e. bill took a pay cut because of the recessions, so should you...) As far as I'm concerned, salary is a completely private matter that is no one elses business, and no good could possibly come from sharing it. I see this openness at buffer essentially being a tool for management to deny raise requests, etc... with... If we do it for you, we…

Private salaries are a benefit for those who know how to take advantage of them and push the boundary on their pay. They are a disadvantage to those who don't or don't want to. So it really depends on which type you are. Buffer will likely attract those who don't like to play this game, and just want fair pay for good work. It could even have the effect of attracting people who truly like and want to be at the company.

Neither approach (public or private salaries) is perfect.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#237

Post by sliverstorm »

lstamour wrote: post #187
sliverstorm wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course on the other hand it could mean your salary haunts you during future interviews and at future jobs. Salary Negotiation 101 is, don't tell them what your old salary was, right? But now the cards are all on the table, and they'll try to say "Well, I see you made $X, we'll beat that by 4%"

There's a difference between salary history and salary expectations. And if they had the nerve to Google your past salary, then I think you could turn that around and ask for a similar matrix to what you had at your last, more transparent company. If they refuse, and you can't justify the salary to yourself given the situation, you're probably better off staying at the transparent company. There's more to a job than…

You can try this or that tactic, and you can say "If they googled your salary, don't work for them", but best I can tell there's no angle where this is better for the prospective job seeker. The seeker can always elect to divulge his previous compensation if he likes; in this situation that option is removed. He now has fewer options, fewer plays.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#238

Post by dinkumthinkum »

zmitri wrote: post #30

I have a question: Why would the founders take such high salaries? Seems to go against everything I would think was important for a company that is venture-backed.

Compare what $158K is in terms of adjustment in other cities. It is not very much money for a skilled worker.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#239

Post by ra3 »

danso wrote: post #12

Wow...the engineering salaries are significantly lower than I would've expected for a well known startup in the Bay Area...at least compared to the perceived range for such things. Note: a less cynical take is this: GodDAMN buffer employees must be happy working there if they tolerated transparency to this level...which, really, is the best win-win for all kinds of transparency scenarios.

> the engineering salaries are significantly lower than I would've expected for a well known startup in the Bay Area.

While some of them do work overseas, Buffer employees should note they're drastically underpaid for Silicon Valley, NYC, or even LA salaries. If they didn't know this before, they should now. Any mid-level dev with decent skills would start around 110-120k before benefits in a highly competitive job market. I know because I hire and offer these salaries right now.

Anyone heading customer service would be in a tier within the rest of customer service, capped at around 90k. This is especially true for a small startup where their duties aren't managing a huge customer service team but rather playing the role of basically another customer service rep.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#240

Post by ra3 »

tallanvor wrote: post #44
ra3 wrote: post #9

Can't say a lot of good things about a company that pays a "Chief Happiness Officer" more than most of its engineers. I know plenty of startups that seem to be doing alright in the customer service department without an overpaid exec heading it. Does she really contribute more to the bottom line than any of the other 4 underpaid engineers?

I'm not sure you really understand what is involved in support positions. I make more than their "Chief Happiness Officer" and I'm nowhere near the top end of the pay scale for support at my employer.

Who is your employer?
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