Scientists extract images directly from brain (2008) • Hacker News Board

Re: Scientists extract images directly from brain (2008)

#41

Post by dejb » Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 1:53 PM UTC

dkokelley wrote: post #36

dejb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long term technology like this will end privacy for those who want to participate in the modern economy. But you shouldn't assume it will happen in a 'top down' way that will benefit totalitarian governments. Totalitarian governments require secrecy to do their evil deeds. Look at the spread of mobile cameras (mostly in phones). These have allowed many an injustice to be exposed. The police no longer feel like…

I think that our exposed thoughts would fall under freedom of speech in America. That, and the 5th amendment ("...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...").

I'm not sure how relevant the constitution will be in a future where you can read peoples minds among other things.

Re: Scientists extract images directly from brain (2008)

#42

Post by tophat02 » Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 3:31 PM UTC

dkokelley wrote: post #36

dejb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the long term technology like this will end privacy for those who want to participate in the modern economy. But you shouldn't assume it will happen in a 'top down' way that will benefit totalitarian governments. Totalitarian governments require secrecy to do their evil deeds. Look at the spread of mobile cameras (mostly in phones). These have allowed many an injustice to be exposed. The police no longer feel like…

I think that our exposed thoughts would fall under freedom of speech in America. That, and the 5th amendment ("...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself...").

But don't forget the part about "without due process." I think that in the future, we will definitely see the use of technology like this to read the minds of accused felons. I also predict the court will declare this perfectly consitutional, as your right to privacy is effectively waived given the right court order (and the motivating "probably cause").

TRULY innocent people will probably like this tech a lot.

Re: Scientists extract images directly from brain (2008)

#43

Post by dinkumthinkum » Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 2:27 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #33

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #5

This should be like front page news. This is something many would have not thought possible. It also poses many problems non-materialists that do not subscribe to a weird hand-wavy coincidentalism.

I don't see how this should pose problems to non-materialists. There's no reason the image can't be formed in the brain before or during transmission to the immaterial mind, for instance. I'm not a dualist by any stretch but to claim this as evidence for materialism is mistaken.

No, you may not understand materialism. Sure, as I already said, if you subscribe to some weird coincidentalist view maybe not but for those not grasping at straws this removes a lot from a dualist conception and it even further shows it as an unneccessary hypothesis.

Re: Scientists extract images directly from brain (2008)

#44

Post by philwelch » Mon, Jul 20, 2009, 10:36 PM UTC

dinkumthinkum wrote: post #43

philwelch wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this should pose problems to non-materialists. There's no reason the image can't be formed in the brain before or during transmission to the immaterial mind, for instance. I'm not a dualist by any stretch but to claim this as evidence for materialism is mistaken.

No, you may not understand materialism. Sure, as I already said, if you subscribe to some weird coincidentalist view maybe not but for those not grasping at straws this removes a lot from a dualist conception and it even further shows it as an unneccessary hypothesis.

Not at all: proving that the brain forms images from sensory inputs only proves that the brain forms images from sensory inputs. It's a tenable dualist position that the material brain handles sense perception while the immaterial mind handles higher level consciousness and thought. In fact, the body was always classically assumed to handle most of sense perception even before this research.

I understand materialism just fine. But this doesn't prove materialism.