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Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#501

Post by sheetjs »

jessedhillon wrote: post #449
sheetjs wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is zero ambiguity in the PG quote > Strictly speaking I should have killed the post entirely And this was 9 months ago. We are left to assume that the policy was enforced (after all, if the post were killed, it wouldn't show up in a search). And even in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6931168 > I've been keeping my mouth shut here about Coinbase after starting that thread 9 months ago. I would…

Sign #1 that should have given you pause: in order to disprove your assertion a person would need to prove a negative, i.e., prove that no criticism was nullified. If you don't see what the problem is here, you may need a course in critical thinking.

(pointing to the statement that HN is not a support forum) + (commenting that PG should have killed the thread) = (PG is likely to kill all threads that may seem like support requests)

Given that many defenders of coinbase, including PG, are seeing support requests as criticisms, (threads that criticize coinbase = threads that seem like support requests) in their heads.

Therefore, (pointing to the statement that HN is not a support forum) + (commenting that PG should have killed the thread) = (PG is likely to kill all threads that may seem like support requests) = (PG is likely to kill all threads that criticize coinbase)

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#502

Post by dragonwriter »

AnneOminous wrote: post #399
21echoes wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

carbon emissions from a coal plant do not have the "intrinsic value" of the coal that produced them. bitcoins from a miner's computer do not have the "intrinsic value" of the electricity and silicon that produced them.

The exhaust from your Chevy also doesn't have the "intrinsic worth" of the oil that it ultimately came from, either. Nor does the electricity from my solar cells have the "intrinsic worth" of the silicon they were made of. So what? That is about the farthest thing from a valid analogy I've seen in a long time.

> The exhaust from your Chevy also doesn't have the "intrinsic worth" of the oil that it ultimately came from, either.

The difference between it and Bitcoin here is that no one is claiming that automotive exhaust has intrinsic worth due to the resources expended to produce it.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#503

Post by bonemachine »

barmstrong wrote: post #53

Brian from Coinbase here. Sorry for the delay on that - definitely not the customer experience we are striving for. We should have things squared away for you by end of day. Edit: your bitcoin credit has now been processed. It looks like as we were performing server upgrades last week a handful of jobs didn't run as normal. We should have certainly caught it and responded sooner so that was our fault. My deepest apol…

Thanks for the clarification, Brian. That's very reassuring.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#504

Post by bonemachine »

jnbiche wrote: post #192
mseebach wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and are you 100%, no strings attached, free to not participate if you are not comfortable with the rules. The stupid libertarians get their stupid pie-in-the-sky currency and you get to sit back with a bowl of popcorn (purchased with a government-secured currency of your choice) and enjoy the show.

Great, now if you could please convince the government to adopt your attitude. Ridicule and childish insults I don't mind, just men with guns coming to lock me up if I don't run my business in the way you think it should be run.

You know, this whole "men with guns" thing is a pretty tired, and basically vapid analogy.

The whole point that libertarians fail to realize -- and one of the most basic and obvious lessons of thousands of years of recorded human history is that one way or another, we're all stuck on this same, leaking boat together. And we're just going to have to find a way to cooperate on some basic level.

Else things start to get really inefficient and wasteful -- or potentially really, really ugly and violent -- really, really fast.

See also:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#505

Post by AnneOminous »

dragonwriter wrote: post #401
AnneOminous wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote: "...but since mining isn't inherently reversible its not an intrinsic value." It IS "value", because the resources used for mining have measurable value, and can be traded for things other than Bitcoins. It may be an indirect measure of value, but it's still a measure of value.

> It IS "value", because the resources used for mining have measurable value, and can be traded for things other than Bitcoins. It is value, but its not value of bitcoins . It is the value that would need to be sacrificied to replace the bitcoins by mining, but its not value that can be recovered from the bitcoins, so its not intrinsic value that supports the market value of bitcoin. Intrinsic value, as the term is u…

But you CAN trade Bitcoins for things, not just currency.

You can trade Bitcoins directly for more hardware to mine Bitcoins. So it IS a reversible transaction, and Bitcoins are DIRECTLY (not indirectly) valued at approximately the cost of mining and distribution.

Don't confuse "indirect value" with "indirect measurement of value". They are different things.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#506

Post by AnneOminous »

dragonwriter wrote: post #502
AnneOminous wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exhaust from your Chevy also doesn't have the "intrinsic worth" of the oil that it ultimately came from, either. Nor does the electricity from my solar cells have the "intrinsic worth" of the silicon they were made of. So what? That is about the farthest thing from a valid analogy I've seen in a long time.

> The exhaust from your Chevy also doesn't have the "intrinsic worth" of the oil that it ultimately came from, either. The difference between it and Bitcoin here is that no one is claiming that automotive exhaust has intrinsic worth due to the resources expended to produce it.

No, you're still not getting it.

The VALUE is not indirect (i.e., extrinsic). The METHOD OF MEASUREMENT is indirect. Those are two different things. One does not imply the other.

If I measure the "worth" of your automobile in units of "old Chrysler convertibles", that doesn't mean your automobile has any more or less economic value than if I measure it in helium balloons. The method of measurement (if it's done properly) does not affect the actual value.

In the case of Bitcoin, it CAN be traded directly for goods, not dollars. There is nothing REAL distinguishing it from any other commodity, such as rice. The value is roughly equivalent to the cost of production + distribution.

I take that back. There IS one difference, but (at this time) it is minor: that is the ultimately limited supply, but that isn't even remotely close enough yet to affect a RATIONAL market.

An EXTRINSIC value, on the other hand, and to use Wikipedia's example, is like the "value" of a song played on a guitar. It has its own subjective and economic values, but that is completely separate from the cost of manufacturing the guitar. This is NOT even remotely the same situation as Bitcoin.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#507

Post by mseebach »

bonemachine wrote: post #504
jnbiche wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, now if you could please convince the government to adopt your attitude. Ridicule and childish insults I don't mind, just men with guns coming to lock me up if I don't run my business in the way you think it should be run.

You know, this whole "men with guns" thing is a pretty tired, and basically vapid analogy. The whole point that libertarians fail to realize -- and one of the most basic and obvious lessons of thousands of years of recorded human history is that one way or another, we're all stuck on this same, leaking boat together. And we're just going to have to find a way to cooperate on some basic level. Else things start to get…

"Mens with guns" isn't an analogy, it's literally what happens if you don't play by what a small majority says are the rules.

It's what happens if you smoke weed and it what happened if you were gay until very few years ago. It's what happens if you're really annoying on Twitter in the UK.

But the golden irony is that you follow up with an analogy about the greatness of coercive government. Leaking boat? Cooperation? Sounds great, clearly that's why we need to throw Aaron Swartz in jail for 35 years.

I'm not convinced that no government is the right size, but the current scope of government across the western world has an immense moral authority problem. We may well be on a leaking boat, but it seems clear to me that the life raft isn't going to save us.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#508

Post by dragonwriter »

AnneOminous wrote: post #505
dragonwriter wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It IS "value", because the resources used for mining have measurable value, and can be traded for things other than Bitcoins. It is value, but its not value of bitcoins . It is the value that would need to be sacrificied to replace the bitcoins by mining, but its not value that can be recovered from the bitcoins, so its not intrinsic value that supports the market value of bitcoin. Intrinsic value, as the term is u…

But you CAN trade Bitcoins for things, not just currency. You can trade Bitcoins directly for more hardware to mine Bitcoins. So it IS a reversible transaction, and Bitcoins are DIRECTLY (not indirectly) valued at approximately the cost of mining and distribution. Don't confuse "indirect value" with "indirect measurement of value". They are different things.

> But you CAN trade Bitcoins for things, not just currency.

The value for which you can trade a currency is its extrinsic value. Insofar as "intrinsic value" is meaningful, it refers to the value you can derive from a thing without exchanging it with someone else.

> You can trade Bitcoins directly for more hardware to mine Bitcoins.

Yes, you can buy things with Bitcoins. That's the definition of a currency's extrinsic value.

> So it IS a reversible transaction

No, if mining was reversible, you could recover the resources expending in mining bitcoins without trading the bitcoin to someone else in the market, the way you can make industrial or ornamental use of gold in your possession without trading that gold to someone else for industrial tools or ornamentation.

> and Bitcoins are DIRECTLY (not indirectly) valued at approximately the cost of mining and distribution.

"Direct value" isn't a well-defined phrase, and isn't the one that was under discussion. Intrinsic value of currency is better defined, and is what was being discussed, and bitcoin doesn't have any of that traceable to its mining cost.

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#509

Post by [deleted] »

jonpaul wrote: post #500
hbags wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I encourage you to study written English communication. Your writing clearly implied that regulation is useless because sometimes criminals evade regulation. If you were capable of understanding how communication works, you'd admit this. Further, I encourage you to learn how not to be a jerk. because you are one, and it undermines any value that you might have, by ensuring that no sane person (who disagrees with…

I'm sorry. Please accept my apology as that wasn't my intent. As a student of both writing and communication, I subscribe to the belief of that a person should write not to be understood, but to not be misunderstood. Clearly I've failed at that. My point was that I don't think that regulation is the answer. I honed in on the idea that regulation has failed in the past (I have more research to do here) and thus, maybe…

[deleted]

Re: Sent $35,104.11 USD to CoinBase. Never received Bitcoins

#510

Post by [deleted] »

jonpaul wrote: post #500
hbags wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I encourage you to study written English communication. Your writing clearly implied that regulation is useless because sometimes criminals evade regulation. If you were capable of understanding how communication works, you'd admit this. Further, I encourage you to learn how not to be a jerk. because you are one, and it undermines any value that you might have, by ensuring that no sane person (who disagrees with…

I'm sorry. Please accept my apology as that wasn't my intent. As a student of both writing and communication, I subscribe to the belief of that a person should write not to be understood, but to not be misunderstood. Clearly I've failed at that. My point was that I don't think that regulation is the answer. I honed in on the idea that regulation has failed in the past (I have more research to do here) and thus, maybe…

[deleted]
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