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Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

open.bufferapp.com

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Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#31

Post by carsongross »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #24
carsongross wrote: post #7

I like this idea, but with a few modifications: * Names should be anonymous. Everyone knows where they are within the group and can determine if its fair without knowing exactly who makes what. * It should include options and bonuses. In some companies non-salary compensation dwarfs salaries, and it's dishonest to point to a CEO salary and say "Look, he only makes 1.something X what regular people do." * Keep it inte…

> The vast majority of compensation in software companies is tied up in options... That's absolutely not true. Most companies never have a liquidity event, a significant number of stock options never vest (employees leaving before they're fully vested is very, very common at startups) and even when a company delivers an exit, the vast majority of employees with equity will, at best, walk away with what amounts to a m…

You are correct, I was being SV-centric. Edited.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#32

Post by quinnchr »

Raphmedia wrote: post #10
iampims wrote: post #2

It’s one thing to have a transparent salary policy, it’s a whole another world to publicly blog about people’s salary with a link to their Twitter account. I hope all employees agreed to have their salary published on the buffer blog. Kudos to them for trying something different.

I never understood the hypocrisy about hiding your salary.

If discussing salary in the workplace weren't taboo there'd be people unionizing left and right.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#33

Post by walshemj »

Raphmedia wrote: post #10
iampims wrote: post #2

It’s one thing to have a transparent salary policy, it’s a whole another world to publicly blog about people’s salary with a link to their Twitter account. I hope all employees agreed to have their salary published on the buffer blog. Kudos to them for trying something different.

I never understood the hypocrisy about hiding your salary.

Companies (especially large ones) don't like it as it limits their negotiation position it can also disclose indirect discrimination e.g. "oops all the females seem to be under paid by 10/20%" which can get expensive.

And it also limits employees when they want to move as the new employer knows how much they make now.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#34

Post by 7Figures2Commas »

fleitz wrote: post #20
wmeredith wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's pretty ballsy. Seems like they're exposing themselves to unnecessary poaching risk. And what do they do in that situation? What if someone has a competing offer and they want to keep them around? Offer a bonus?

Nope, you talk about transparency, fairness, etc. If you're sticking to that salary structure you're not going to win on price in this market. Warm fuzzies are important to a lot of people, look at how non-profits retain people. Also, there are a lot of people who don't know how to negotiate that would probably benefit from something like this. I know a few devs who stick around at places because they like the people…

> I know a lot of devs who stick around at places because they like the people, etc, despite having had multiple offers for more money.

Sure, but that's not the only consideration here. Employees don't always have the option of sticking around at a company. Not all startups make it, and people are terminated or laid off from jobs they love all the time.

If and when the time comes to find another job, a public record of your previous salary may not benefit you in your negotiations with prospective employers.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#35

Post by ricardobeat »

danso wrote: post #12

Wow...the engineering salaries are significantly lower than I would've expected for a well known startup in the Bay Area...at least compared to the perceived range for such things. Note: a less cynical take is this: GodDAMN buffer employees must be happy working there if they tolerated transparency to this level...which, really, is the best win-win for all kinds of transparency scenarios.

They have engineers in the UK, Taiwan, Ireland and Colorado. If they all lived in SF the salaries would be above $100k.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#36

Post by benihana »

This sounds like absolute hell

>Every internal email sent between any 2 people on the team has a certain list cc’ed that is accessible for everyone: For example if 2 engineers email with each other, they cc the engineers list, if it’s people on our customer support team they have a support email list cc’ed. Stripe was a great inspiration for this. (More about this)

Openness and transparency and honesty are great. But this seems like it's removing privacy, which sounds very tiring.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#37

Post by kapilkale »

Seems unwise to have a CEO co-founder be the highest salaried employee at a startup.

That person's equity position is probably at least an order of magnitude higher than the other employees. As an investor or employee, I'd find this alarming.

http://techcrunch.com/2008/09/08/peter-thiel-best-predictor-...

Call me old fashioned, but I think co-founders should be paid living expenses + 25%, even in a series-A funded startup.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#38

Post by ricardobeat »

JonFish85 wrote: post #29

Let's say I'm a competitor, and I find that Niel (randomly picked) is someone I want to hire. All else being equal, I offer him $100k (website says he's making $88k). He comes to his boss to say "I like it here, can you match it?" What does his boss do? Especially, if he's valuable to the company... What if I have a very specialized skill that doesn't fit nicely into your matrix? Let's say market pay for my skill is…

"All else being equal" is a huge assumption. Will your company offer the same environment, flexibility, openness, remote work? You should first assume that Buffer keeps their employees very happy to be able to openly publish their salaries.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#39

Post by walshemj »

7Figures2Commas wrote: post #24
carsongross wrote: post #7

I like this idea, but with a few modifications: * Names should be anonymous. Everyone knows where they are within the group and can determine if its fair without knowing exactly who makes what. * It should include options and bonuses. In some companies non-salary compensation dwarfs salaries, and it's dishonest to point to a CEO salary and say "Look, he only makes 1.something X what regular people do." * Keep it inte…

> The vast majority of compensation in software companies is tied up in options... That's absolutely not true. Most companies never have a liquidity event, a significant number of stock options never vest (employees leaving before they're fully vested is very, very common at startups) and even when a company delivers an exit, the vast majority of employees with equity will, at best, walk away with what amounts to a m…

Not so sure I bet most (85-90%) UK medium to large companies have share save schemes which are v popular - share options in large companies can be quite lucrative.

Re: Introducing Open Salaries at Buffer

#40

Post by wahnfrieden »

thatthatis wrote: post #28
dsugarman wrote: post #18

I have a feeling you will regret this soon. There are certain benefits in having a firm salary structure sponsored by a transparent system, but the loss of flexibility will hurt in ways you haven't experienced. Also, letting everyone know what their peers make can cause disgruntled employees.

I've worked under open salary formulas and closed salary formulas. I'd rather work under an open salary formula any day.

Why
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