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Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

blog.coinbase.com

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Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#61

Post by mrb »

Locke1689 wrote: post #49
mrb wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could pay taxes using the German Papiermark or Zimbabwean dollar, and look at what happened to them... Intrinsic value is not determined by the ability to pay taxes. Fiat money has zero intrinsic value (well, beside the value of the paper and metal bills and coins are made of, but this value is negligible - spare the US penny coin).

Obviously the importance of paying taxes directly depends on the strength and stability of the government collecting them. I am personally sure that 1) the US govt will be here tomorrow to collect and 2) they have enough guns to do so.

Your original claim was that fiat currencies had intrinsic value. I don't see how 1) or 2) support the fact a fiat currency has intrinsic value. On the contrary, history shows that fiat currencies always significantly lose value over time. The USD for example has lost 85% of its value over the last 50 years. How is this observation compatible with any sort of intrinsic value? "Guns" and "taxes" did nothing to prevent this loss of value...

What you are trying to say, I believe, is that fiat currencies will likely have some value in the future because they are in demand (notably from taxes). That is true, but this is no different from Bitcoin: it has value because it is in demand. I would argue that the potential demand for Bitcoin is higher than the potential demand for USD, if only because there are billion of people across the world from countries with terrible fiscal policies for whom Bitcoin is clearly superior to their local inflation-ridden currencies. Compare this number to the merely 200 million tax payers in the USA.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#62

Post by zt »

yebyen wrote: post #48
yapcguy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold has been used as a store of value for thousands of years around the world.

Intrinsic. Those people have not been making use of the intrinsic value of Gold, they have been making the same use as in fiat money and bitcoins today, as a rare commodity considered acceptable as a financial instrument. That's (rarity) not an intrinsic value. That is to say, its intrinsic value includes electrical conductive properties and capacity for use in electrolytic plating. I am ignorant, what are some other…

Well diamonds actually have a ton of useful properties -- beyond just being pretty to look at -- but that doesn't actually justify the price per se.

The problem with Gold is also it's virtue: it's rare. Rarity is good in that it implies value. But let's say you're the American economy and you're growing 2% this year. Should your money supply be governed by how much of it you can dig out of the ground? That is, for example, when South African gold mines were discovered the money supply internationally radically increased, despite having no relationship to economic output. That ends up not working out very well.

Bitcoin though could be thought of more like gold and diamonds not because those things are good to think of as currencies -- they really are not good currencies at all-- but because their all commodities with limited supplies that have markets that move on vagaries with little relationship to any economic necessity or output.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#63

Post by hmsimha »

yebyen wrote: post #48
yapcguy wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold has been used as a store of value for thousands of years around the world.

Intrinsic. Those people have not been making use of the intrinsic value of Gold, they have been making the same use as in fiat money and bitcoins today, as a rare commodity considered acceptable as a financial instrument. That's (rarity) not an intrinsic value. That is to say, its intrinsic value includes electrical conductive properties and capacity for use in electrolytic plating. I am ignorant, what are some other…

Well diamonds are also valuable because of their use as a coating for cutting instruments. But, much like diamond, your point is solid; gold and diamond have been valuable over the years for the sole reason that people are willing to accept they are valuable.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#64

Post by wdewind »

jedi_stannis wrote: post #59
differentView wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I use Bitcoin as oppose to other digital currencies to send money to my grandma?

There is no central controlling authority you need to trust to not seize your digital currency.

Which has not traditionally been an issue when "sending money to grandma."

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#65

Post by nether »

cjensen wrote: post #21
d23 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoins have no intrinsic value Neither does gold, paper money, or diamonds. And yet they've remained valuable for a long time. What gives?

Gold and Diamonds have obvious intrinsic value. Paper money does too, but it's harder to demonstrate.

So tying the dollar to the gold standard is meaningless, because paper money is in itself intrinsically valuable? I thought the dollar was fiat [1], i.e. without intrinsic value. Just like bitcoin.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_money

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#66

Post by [deleted] »

pg wrote: post #57

Incidentally, Coinbase's graph has an almost misleadingly modest aspect ratio. If you want to compare their growth to other growth graphs you've seen, compress it by at least half horizontally.

[deleted]

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#67

Post by larrys »

jedi_stannis wrote: post #59
differentView wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I use Bitcoin as oppose to other digital currencies to send money to my grandma?

There is no central controlling authority you need to trust to not seize your digital currency.

I'd really like you to say more on why, to you in particular, and not just in theory, this is important.

For example I've been using money and doing traditional banking for a long time. In the US at least the only reason my money would be seized is if I get hit with a lawsuit or don't pay my taxes (or perhaps in a divorce). (Have I missed anything?).

As such that is something that I am willing to accept.

So what are your specific concerns with respect to not having to trust a central controlling authority?

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#68

Post by anonymoushn »

cjensen wrote: post #21
d23 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoins have no intrinsic value Neither does gold, paper money, or diamonds. And yet they've remained valuable for a long time. What gives?

Gold and Diamonds have obvious intrinsic value. Paper money does too, but it's harder to demonstrate.

The value of paper money is something like "If you want to exchange your work for goods and services, you will need to provide paper money to the local gang, or else." If the gang in power changes, or at the whim of the gang in power, the money can quickly become worthless. For instance, I have not succeeded in trading réis or markka for bread or gasoline recently.

Re: Coinbase Crosses 650,000 Users

#70

Post by [deleted] »

mrb wrote: post #61
Locke1689 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously the importance of paying taxes directly depends on the strength and stability of the government collecting them. I am personally sure that 1) the US govt will be here tomorrow to collect and 2) they have enough guns to do so.

Your original claim was that fiat currencies had intrinsic value. I don't see how 1) or 2) support the fact a fiat currency has intrinsic value. On the contrary, history shows that fiat currencies always significantly lose value over time. The USD for example has lost 85% of its value over the last 50 years. How is this observation compatible with any sort of intrinsic value? "Guns" and "taxes" did nothing to prevent…

[deleted]
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