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Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

washingtonpost.com

81–90 of 241 posts

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#81
post #30

I want hardware on/off switches for camera, microphone, wifi, bluetooth, and maybe even external speakers. These should be power switches, not switches that make a polite request to firmware for the firmware to act as if the devices are off.

I'd pay someone $10 if I could figure out a way to make sure that my macbook never plays the "I AM NOW TURNING ON" sound.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#82
post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

Having an inline LED is still a bit over-engineered in my opinion. The earliest standalone webcams, for instance Logitech models and the IndyCam that came with the Silicon Graphics 'Indy' workstation, had a 'door' that you could slide over the lens when not in use. Lenovo had this on their all in one PC's a few years ago but I don't think they kept that feature. What was wrong with the slide-across lens cover? You wo…

>What was wrong with the slide-across lens cover?

The fact that you can forget it open, duh!

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#83
post #5

I would be more concerned about the microphone. I can easily cover the camera with tape. Also, random pictures of me programming or reading HN are probably less damaging audio recordings of conversations I might be having.

I use a cut-out piece of postit note for the camera, and a small piece of etape for the microphones -- seems stable, and both are pretty easy to take off without leaving too much spooge behind.

I put a piece of paper over the camera, then tape over that. That doesn't leave glue on the lens.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#84
post #58

There's quite a bit of alarm here and in the wording of the article. But no mention of HOW this exploit is applied. I mean surely they're not saying you send someone an e-mail and if they open it their webcam firmware is changed? Or visit a web page or have a flash banner ad run? You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT? In other words; this isn't jus…

> You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT? In theory; but a motivated party with sufficient resources could simply ("simply") author a fake OS update and deliver it to you over a compromised ISP and you'd never know the difference.

You would just chain multiple exploits. For the right price you can buy a zero-day exploit for anything you want -- for the browser, OS & root access. If you have the money, installing the camera exploit in place is trivial.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#85
There is a freely-available kernel extension[1] to make this firmware hack accessible to root only. The exploit depends on modding the camera firmware from userspace.

The kext is created by the same authors of the paper[2] this article is talking about. Search the paper for "iSightDefender".

[1] https://github.com/stevecheckoway/iSightDefender

[2] https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/bitstream/handle/1774.2...

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#86
post #56
post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

I thought the same as well. An LED in series with the circuit powering the CMOS sensor is all that would be needed. No amount of reprogramming is going to bypass a physical circuit. This is disappointing, and I expect Apple will redesign the cameras because of it.

The LED is wired up directly to light up in the opposite state of the standby signal (i.e. off control) to the camera module. However, the camera module has a programmable setting to ignore its standby pin, and the microcontroller can be programmed to do whatever it wants with the (now ignored) standby pin.

The fact the camera controller could be reprogrammed from user space and then used to emulate a keyboard or mouse and bypass security / a virtual machine particularly devious, and shows how hard it is to trust even known hardware.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#87
post #28
post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

Now all you have to do is warn users that the one LED is important and means something. Not like all the other LEDs that are on all the time and are mostly pointless. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/webcam-spy-settleme... http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386599,00.asp > When the school district investigated the case, it found other incidents of webcam spying, and notified the students involved, includin…

Malware that spontaneously lights the LED without activating the camera so the user becomes accustomed to a false indicator. Or have the LED turn anytime the machine is left idle (but still on) in order to burn out the LED.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#88
post #58

There's quite a bit of alarm here and in the wording of the article. But no mention of HOW this exploit is applied. I mean surely they're not saying you send someone an e-mail and if they open it their webcam firmware is changed? Or visit a web page or have a flash banner ad run? You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT? In other words; this isn't jus…

> You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT? In theory; but a motivated party with sufficient resources could simply ("simply") author a fake OS update and deliver it to you over a compromised ISP and you'd never know the difference.

No, it can run in user space by an unprivileged (non-root) application:

https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#89
post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

Having an inline LED is still a bit over-engineered in my opinion. The earliest standalone webcams, for instance Logitech models and the IndyCam that came with the Silicon Graphics 'Indy' workstation, had a 'door' that you could slide over the lens when not in use. Lenovo had this on their all in one PC's a few years ago but I don't think they kept that feature. What was wrong with the slide-across lens cover? You wo…

more parts, more cost, more to break, more dissatisfied customers, more customer service calls, more returns...

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of computer users have no idea what you just typed. HDD light blinking? That means it's working correctly. Am I right?

Sure, but that remaining 1% is who those 99% go to when their computer isn't working properly.

We are the one percent? (sorry)
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