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Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#61

Post by arrrg »

DanBC wrote: post #28
x0054 wrote: post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

Now all you have to do is warn users that the one LED is important and means something. Not like all the other LEDs that are on all the time and are mostly pointless. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/webcam-spy-settleme... http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386599,00.asp > When the school district investigated the case, it found other incidents of webcam spying, and notified the students involved, includin…

Well, on MacBooks it’s the only LED. Ok, that’s slightly misleading, there is another one on the charging cable (indicating whether the device is connected to power and whether or not it is charging).

This to me seems more like an application of Occam’s razor. Hardware or Software malfunctioning seems much more likely than someone spying on you.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#62

Post by proee »

x0054 wrote: post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

One of the best ways is to have a dedicated "Chip Enable" pin on the camera module. You then connect an LED to the state of this pin and when the Chip Enable pin is "Hight" the LED is turned on. However, there needs to be additional circuitry (an extra pin) and some work to ensure proper voltage levels are met for both the pin and the LED (extra cost).

Another option is to enable the LED when power is turned onto the module.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#63

Post by dec0dedab0de »

praptak wrote: post #47
eurleif wrote: post #16

And I thought I was clever for turning the light on for only a tiny split-second to take a picture... (I wasn't writing malware. I put the program on my own laptop before I sent it in to be serviced. http://ecritters.biz/applecarefacility/ )

It actually is clever. I like this "go around instead of breaking" approach very much. Two similar cases: A car magazine claimed they discovered a serious weakness in a particular brand of a steering wheel lock. The company made a series of improvements to the lock and challenged the magazine to demo their hack. The magazine guy approached the new lock, gave it a good hard yank and it came off the steering wheel. Ano…

Do you have sources? They seem like interesting stories.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#64

Post by asciimo »

troubledwine wrote: post #37

There's quite a bit of alarm here and in the wording of the article. But no mention of HOW this exploit is applied. I mean surely they're not saying you send someone an e-mail and if they open it their webcam firmware is changed? Or visit a web page or have a flash banner ad run? You'd have to get the user to download and run a package installer that prompts for an admin password RIGHT? In other words; this isn't jus…

I agree, and I remain skeptical that this is a trivial or common hack:

> But researchers figured out how to reprogram the chip inside the camera, known as a micro-controller, to defeat this security feature.

Aren't Mac firmware updates always a big deal with special boot modes and audio tones?

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#65

Post by headgasket »

cinquemb wrote: post #55
greglindahl wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a cut-out piece of postit note for the camera, and a small piece of etape for the microphones -- seems stable, and both are pretty easy to take off without leaving too much spooge behind.

What about internal microphones on MB's? osascript -e 'set volume input volume 0' doesn't really produce the expected result…

plug a square card reader in the jack.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#66

Post by StringyBob »

justin wrote: post #5

I would be more concerned about the microphone. I can easily cover the camera with tape. Also, random pictures of me programming or reading HN are probably less damaging audio recordings of conversations I might be having.

My current Thinkpad has a physical switch to disable radios. I'd like to have a physical 'privacy' switch that cut the power to internal microphones and cameras. To be security aware, this has to be an auditable hardware power switch, and not just an interrupt/driver/bios combination that could be bypassed. It's also prefereable for security to have a an off-by-default switch, than an activity light you might not notice...

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#67

Post by DanBC »

arrrg wrote: post #61
DanBC wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now all you have to do is warn users that the one LED is important and means something. Not like all the other LEDs that are on all the time and are mostly pointless. http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/10/webcam-spy-settleme... http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2386599,00.asp > When the school district investigated the case, it found other incidents of webcam spying, and notified the students involved, includin…

Well, on MacBooks it’s the only LED. Ok, that’s slightly misleading, there is another one on the charging cable (indicating whether the device is connected to power and whether or not it is charging). This to me seems more like an application of Occam’s razor. Hardware or Software malfunctioning seems much more likely than someone spying on you.

There was one in the front of the case. They had to use lasers to poke tiny holes in the aluminum.

http://www.grafik.com/blog/2011/11/apple-sleep-function/

But yes, it's nice that they don't have a bunch of LEDs for everything.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#68

Post by x0054 »

willismichael wrote: post #45
Crito wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Now all you have to do is warn users that the one LED is important and means something. Not like all the other LEDs that are on all the time and are mostly pointless." No longer plastering devices with semi-pointless LEDs would help. Harddrive activity? Wifi? Bluetooth? I don't think all these lights are really necessary. Throw one on the power cable maybe, and a few to backlight the keyboard, but otherwise only use…

Hey, I find the hard drive light very helpful in determining whether my system is thrashing for virtual memory, or likely stuck on some CPU-bound process.

That's the only LED that I actually miss on my MacBook. So much so that I have a virtual LED for this in the menubar. That and the batter indications LEDs older MacBooks used to have. The rMBP is missing those as well, not sure why they got rid of that.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#69

Post by Mindless2112 »

AlisdairSH wrote: post #50
willismichael wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, I find the hard drive light very helpful in determining whether my system is thrashing for virtual memory, or likely stuck on some CPU-bound process.

99% of computer users have no idea what you just typed. HDD light blinking? That means it's working correctly. Am I right?

Sure, but that remaining 1% is who those 99% go to when their computer isn't working properly.

Re: Research shows how MacBook Webcams can spy on their users without warning

#70

Post by esmi »

proee wrote: post #62
x0054 wrote: post #9

Honestly, I don’t understand why it’s so difficult to create a camera chip not susceptible to any software hack. The camera sensor needs electrical current to work. Simply place the LED inline or in parallel to the camera and you are done. Any time current is sent to the camera sensor, the LED cant help it but light up. My knowledge of electronics is limited, but I know for a fact that this can be achieved without th…

One of the best ways is to have a dedicated "Chip Enable" pin on the camera module. You then connect an LED to the state of this pin and when the Chip Enable pin is "Hight" the LED is turned on. However, there needs to be additional circuitry (an extra pin) and some work to ensure proper voltage levels are met for both the pin and the LED (extra cost). Another option is to enable the LED when power is turned onto the…

Look at figure 2 in the attached research paper. You'll find this is exactly how this model of iSight camera works.

This interlock failed because the Micron sensor Apple used had software straps that could be reconfigured to have the sensor ignore its enable pin.

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