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oDesk to merge with Elance

odesk.com

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Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#41

Post by leknarf »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #35
leknarf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our startup Lambda ( http://getlambda.com ) competes with both, but we're not the least bit concerned. I already thought of elance/odesk as being effectively the same, in the sense that they're both known as places to find cheap, off-shore labor. I don't know any devs in NYC who've seriously considered working through either site and don't expect that to change. Likewise, I don't know many hiring companies that have…

I've been working through Freelancer/Elance for about 5 years now. I'm quite an experienced iOS dev and typically only apply to the higher priced jobs which then tend to lead on to repeat work. I just took a look at your site. Although I would consider myself quite experienced I'm not a 'rockstar'. What kind of devs do you accept to join Lambda? What do you consider an 'exceptional developer'?

That's interesting. I love to talk with you sometime about your experience with those higher priced jobs. I'm particularly curious about what kinds of clients are mosting higher price jobs on elance, since our experience has been that it's mostly a race to the bottom. Could you send me an email: andrew at getlambda dotcom

For the types of projects we work with, "exceptional developers" might be better described as "competent developers, great entrepreneurs". Of course, that wouldn't be ideal marketing copy :)

In general, raw technical ability isn't a huge factor in commanding higher rates. There's definitely a minimum threshold someone needs to pass, but you'd probably clear that easily if you've been freelancing for 5+ years.

Instead of learning to code faster, you'd be better served by learning to code less. Clients often have big ideas that would take 6+ months to build in their entirety, but which could be shipped in weeks by eliminating unnecessary features. Convincing them to cut those features is a skill in of itself, which is often what separates "freelancers" from "consultants".

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#42

Post by tmarthal »

tempestn wrote: post #36
Iftheshoefits wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Talented freelancers do themselves a disservice by using either of these "services". The only reason for a talented freelancer to use them is out of a desperate need for even abysmal compensation. This merger will likely make things worse for them (freelancers), not better. Yes, I know there are some freelancers working on these sites who earn a "decent" living. They're anomalies. The vast majority of workers earn re…

So where would you go to find a talented freelancer then? (Assuming you don't have any good word of mouth recommendations.) Not sarcasm - I'm generally interested if you have a better way of finding them that's more reliable that google searches or trolling stackoverflow.

Do you have a network on Twitter? I see people looking (and responding to) freelance inquiries all the time. All based on word-of-mouth and friend-of-friend networks.

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#43

Post by nikolak »

Iftheshoefits wrote: post #24
tejay wrote: post #14

That's surprising. I feel bad for talented freelancers =/.

Talented freelancers do themselves a disservice by using either of these "services". The only reason for a talented freelancer to use them is out of a desperate need for even abysmal compensation. This merger will likely make things worse for them (freelancers), not better. Yes, I know there are some freelancers working on these sites who earn a "decent" living. They're anomalies. The vast majority of workers earn re…

From a US based dev's perspective, I'd agree with you.

But it really depends on your definition of "horrible" and "well paid".

$5/hr in US is horrible.

$5/hr in a developing country is awesome and well paid - Even for talented freelancers.

And finding clients who are ready to pay you, as a developer from outside US, an standard/decent/well US wage for the job is pretty hard - almost impossible - at least in my experience.

Do you have any tips on finding well paid (generally better paid than oDesk) jobs for freelancers outside US/Western europe?

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#44

Post by wonderyak »

goostavos wrote: post #38
benhebert wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too hate elance and have been using oDesk for years. The experience at oDesk was just phenomenally better than elance. You're right about ripe for disruption too. I wonder who will move into the space.

Out of curiosity, are you using oDesk to hire contractors, or are you freelancing on oDesk? I ask because I recently started freelancing on the sight an it feels like fighting for scraps. I mean, half the posts I see have "Contact goes to the lowest bidder" at the top of the listing. Does it get better once you "establish" yourself on the site? Right now it feels pretty futile outside of making some pocket change.

I used oDesk exclusively for hiring developers for a number of years, here is my 2 cents:

> it feels like fighting for scraps

You are fighting for scraps. Generally speaking, until you've been really burnt by a contractor you feel great hiring people in India to work for pennies compared to what you're reselling the service for.

IMO, this is the vast majority of people hiring on oDesk.

In addition, there are SMB or Agency type businesses that are looking to form relationships; they don't want to have to constantly search for new developers. Often, they will find a group or business with a stable of developers even if the quality of the work is a little bit poorer. Many of the firms I worked with just had a project manager that communicated with the developers on their end (often because they did not speak english) and maintained a single point of contact for us. Those were our best experiences.

> Does it get better once you "establish" yourself on the site?

It should. By the end of the time I was using oDesk I had several filters set up when searching so if someone had not completed a test or rating they would never appear on my radar.

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#45

Post by [deleted] »

aytekin wrote: post #18
lingben wrote: post #3

As long as oDesk does not change at all, I'm happy. The only reason I hire on oDesk is because it is NOT elance - have had horrible experience with elance both with providers and the company itself and how it conducts business (or what it calls business). Although this is called a merger, it is only that in name. It seems elance's CEO will call the shots. https://www.odesk.com/blog/2013/12/mergerfaq/ "Who will lead t…

It is like Google merging with AltaVista and AltaVista CEO becoming the new CEO. We depend heavily on oDesk for our support team so this is a very scary news.

[deleted]

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#46

Post by yogo »

krapp wrote: post #10

Oh, good. Now the experience of begging for slave wages fixing people's wordpress installs can be even more streamlined.

For Wordpress installations I get it but it's the School Administration Solution for US$400 that's scary. Otherwise I agree, good luck to all inhabitants as the ghettos merge.

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#47

Post by maratd »

lingben wrote: post #34
sixspeed wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you mind elaborating on your experiences with elance? I had a family member who does freelance marketing/writing called me a few years ago and mentioned he was planning to sign up there and asking what I knew about it. I could only tell him about a comment I'd browsed on HN that referred to it as a "ghetto" of poor paying assignments. He went ahead with it and now seems to be doing quite well as one of the top…

My experience is with hiring technical freelancers: design, network, security, development, etc. It is entirely possible that elance is great for non-technical jobs. The issues I ran into were providers who have great ratings but who can't do the job! Later I found out that elance has a loophole where buyers who disputed or cancelled projects are not able to leave feedback. So you're not getting the full story when y…

> Later I found out that elance has a loophole where buyers who disputed or cancelled projects are not able to leave feedback.

That is not correct.

You can dispute a project and as long as the freelancer received a single dollar for any work, you can leave feedback. Why should you be allowed to leave feedback if there hasn't been any payment made?

There are just as many clowns on the client side, as there are on the freelancer side. Many projects never get off the ground because the client has no money or is just an idiot. People like that should be allowed to leave feedback?

If you're having trouble finding quality help on Elance, try creating a private project and invite only those in your geographic region. So if you're in the US, that means US freelancers.

In the end, you get what you pay for. Don't expect miracles from India.

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#48

Post by yogo »

albedo wrote: post #17
zackmorris wrote: post #8

I have mixed emotions about this because I have made a solid income at times with oDesk's time tracker, but I don't want it to become the standard way of doing things. That's because majority of the work I do now is on a subconscious level, so I'm basically thinking about a problem all day and it may only take an hour to code up the solution. I guess a workaround is to double or triple hourly rates, but I don't see t…

Our company Lambda ( http://getlambda.com ) helps negotiate contract work for our freelancers. We often set up the following arrangement: the client pays in advance for a week or two of work, and we agree that "a week" contains X hours of developer time. If there are hours unused by the end of the contract, we refund the money. It's an elegant way to avoid most payment issues.

On your site it doesn't say whether or not you get a cut, but given the natural alignment of interests I think it's safe to say you won't have a problem with having to return unused hours, even an honest developer will simply maximize those hours.

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#49

Post by krapp »

yogo wrote: post #46
krapp wrote: post #10

Oh, good. Now the experience of begging for slave wages fixing people's wordpress installs can be even more streamlined.

For Wordpress installations I get it but it's the School Administration Solution for US$400 that's scary. Otherwise I agree, good luck to all inhabitants as the ghettos merge.

Yeah... that sounds like something I actually might have bid on. Someone else is probably got it for $10.

Re: oDesk to merge with Elance

#50

Post by k-mcgrady »

leknarf wrote: post #41
k-mcgrady wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working through Freelancer/Elance for about 5 years now. I'm quite an experienced iOS dev and typically only apply to the higher priced jobs which then tend to lead on to repeat work. I just took a look at your site. Although I would consider myself quite experienced I'm not a 'rockstar'. What kind of devs do you accept to join Lambda? What do you consider an 'exceptional developer'?

That's interesting. I love to talk with you sometime about your experience with those higher priced jobs. I'm particularly curious about what kinds of clients are mosting higher price jobs on elance, since our experience has been that it's mostly a race to the bottom. Could you send me an email: andrew at getlambda dotcom For the types of projects we work with, "exceptional developers" might be better described as "c…

Cheers, sent you an email.
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