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Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

nytimes.com

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Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#91

Post by yongjik »

Fuxy wrote: post #4

China is afraid. Bit-coin is an unregulated way of moving money out of China and they are known for keeping the movement of money in and out of china under very strict control. The only way of regaining this control is by forcing all major companies to ban bit-coin. You think the companies are happy about this they were making a very nice profit from the transactions.

If you find an ant taking a crumb of bread from under your table you aren't afraid. You're annoyed. Let's not lose perspective here.

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#92

Post by bonbon »

jackgavigan wrote: post #56

Predictable outcome is predictable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6818821 Anyone who thought the Chinese government were going to ignore a mechanism that allowed people to bypass capital controls with impunity was pretty naive. Bitcoin fanboys have classic tunnel vision - they're so enamoured of the libertarian ideal of an anonymous crypto-currency that's not controlled by any government, that they ignored all…

""they ignored all the practical, economic and legal challenges it would need to overcome before it could become a real currency""

Bitcoin is born liberated and will continue to, irrespective of governments giving their stance. What else would a 'fanboy' expect from established players?

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#93

Post by grey-area »

oznathan wrote: post #68
grey-area wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should a currency be an investment?

One of the greatest investors of all-time, George Soros, made billions betting against the British Pound. A pretty old currency. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2773265/Billionaire-who-b...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6927003

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#94

Post by tg3 »

lukifer wrote: post #52
grey-area wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong question, I think. Bitcoin aspires to be a currency and is presented as one, at the same time as trying to boost adoption by presenting itself as a cannot fail investment (hence built-in depreciation, mining etc), so I think it's a fair question. If I declare white pebbles currency, and that there are only 20 pebbles acceptable, and each year I'll throw one into the deep sea, I have an appreciating currency. Wh…

Is a website a document? It is, sort of, but there's also Gmail. BitCoin is a new thing; it does not map well to preceding concepts, be it "asset" or "currency" or something else entirely.

I think it maps decently well to the concept of a currency. It has no intrinsic value, and the amount of it in circulation is controlled by a central authority.

In the case of the US, the Fed constantly adjusts the dollars in circulation to further their monetary policies (typically low inflation, with economic growth), while in the case of BitCoin, the amount in circulation is set by a mathematical curve that is deflationary in nature.

Analyzing it as a deflationary currency (which many people treat as an "investment", because it increases in value over time) is about right.

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#95

Post by d23 »

vectorpush wrote: post #69
jackgavigan wrote: post #56

Predictable outcome is predictable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6818821 Anyone who thought the Chinese government were going to ignore a mechanism that allowed people to bypass capital controls with impunity was pretty naive. Bitcoin fanboys have classic tunnel vision - they're so enamoured of the libertarian ideal of an anonymous crypto-currency that's not controlled by any government, that they ignored all…

Bitcoin fanboys have classic tunnel vision - they're so enamoured of the libertarian ideal of an anonymous crypto-currency that's not controlled by any government, that they ignored all the practical, economic and legal challenges it would need to overcome before it could become a real currency. I am always amazed by the condescending tone of know it all speculators who think they've got it all figured it out. Labeli…

This is a real pet peeve of mine. Blowhard bullshitters asserting overgeneralized statements as fact.

I think bitcoin is cool, I've bought a couple because I used mine back when they were $2 per share. I don't have libertarian masturbatory fantasies -- I see it as a toy that could make me money if it continues to blow up.

> Anyway, I expect you to headline the inevitable "Bitcoin Once Again Breaks 1k" thread with a post linking to your comment here, explaining why you were full of shit...

These people don't tend to do that, because if they had any degree of introspection they wouldn't be so full of shit in the first place.

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#96

Post by gruseom »

master_shake wrote: post #10

In April, I watched the price of bitcoin every day. When it approached $200 I said "f*ck it," took out a student loan and bought in at $225. The VERY NEXT DAY the price collapsed. I watched bitcoin slide to $50 in a state of complete and utter devastation. I felt so stupid. I decided not to sell, and just considered the loan to be a write-off. Point being, you should assess the quality of your investment in years, no…

allow me to quote Mahatma Gandhi

Gandhi never said the "first they ignore you" thing. It's been traced back to a speech by a union activist in 1912 or so. Lots of previous discussion about this on HN.

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#97

Post by baddox »

jackgavigan wrote: post #56

Predictable outcome is predictable: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6818821 Anyone who thought the Chinese government were going to ignore a mechanism that allowed people to bypass capital controls with impunity was pretty naive. Bitcoin fanboys have classic tunnel vision - they're so enamoured of the libertarian ideal of an anonymous crypto-currency that's not controlled by any government, that they ignored all…

Why are you patting yourself on the back for one of the most obvious predictions imaginable? What's next, a brilliant prediction that if the US government bans electric cars, Tesla's stock will crash?

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#98

Post by baddox »

Fuxy wrote: post #4

China is afraid. Bit-coin is an unregulated way of moving money out of China and they are known for keeping the movement of money in and out of china under very strict control. The only way of regaining this control is by forcing all major companies to ban bit-coin. You think the companies are happy about this they were making a very nice profit from the transactions.

It's obviously a matter of controlling the flow of money (or capital in general). I fail to understand how anyone thinks this demonstrates a flaw or shortcoming of Bitcoin.

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#99

Post by richardw »

grey-area wrote: post #29
richardw wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong question, I think. This thing is barely a currency. It has built-in deflation, which makes it a great long-term store of value (assuming it isn't killed somehow) in a world of depreciating alternative stores of value, but a bad currency. If you want a currency for day-to-day use, USD is what you want. If you want to hedge against USD depreciation, BTC is one option.

Wrong question, I think. Bitcoin aspires to be a currency and is presented as one, at the same time as trying to boost adoption by presenting itself as a cannot fail investment (hence built-in depreciation, mining etc), so I think it's a fair question. If I declare white pebbles currency, and that there are only 20 pebbles acceptable, and each year I'll throw one into the deep sea, I have an appreciating currency. Wh…

My point is that if you measure bitcoin as a currency it's doomed to be a failure. I don't care if its called a crypto currency, it's a crap currency. After one minute of reading about it the major benefit to me was its supply limit. Demand is erratic, supply is limited. It's an option on a black swan-like resource. Its name or what most people think of it as, doesn't change the fundamentals.

I'd agree my usage of the term 'hedge' isn't useful. But it is nice to have something that has appreciated so well over time, where my own currency has sucked.

I don't worry too much whether it succeeds or fails, but I assume if it succeeds it'll have to move through the hysteria and a trough of disillusionment to find some niche.

Re: Bitcoin Value Sinks After Chinese Exchange Move

#100

Post by adrianwaj »

erdoserdoserdos wrote: post #49

Unregulated capital flight is really not a feature of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is money with the ledger built into it. It's not for hiding wealth, but for tracking it. This is a market correction that had to take place. People get confused right now because the ledger is more or less blank. It won't be. (As a slightly dystopian side note, BTC with very little history may become very very valuable.) In the future, it is going…

"BTC with very little history may become very very valuable"

Perhaps, but I think that's why some degree of drug site users.. according to my readings, prefer litecoins. (just not sure how important of a feature ltc is, but it seems to be at least quite important to some)

The value is in having exchanges with little history, and having viable altchains that people can buy into and sell out of.

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