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I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

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111–120 of 142 posts

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#111
post #79
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. In mainstream Christianity in the US at least, asking your god or saints for help or advice is totally kosher. It is only when you try to communicate with other sorts of beings or things that all of the "witchcraft" stuff kicks in.

My favorite quote on the matter: "The president of the United States has claimed, on more than one occasion, to be in dialogue with God. If he said that he was talking to God through his hairdryer, this would precipitate a national emergency. I fail to see how the addition of a hairdryer makes the claim more ridiculous or offensive." (Note: don't take my quoting of Sam Harris as an endorsement of him in general. I ha…

If you liked that I urge you to seek out more: it gets even better. I especially recommend his talks that can be found on YouTube - he's a scientist and philosopher with the timing of a standup comedian.

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#112

I feel sad reading this. I'm happy that they left him alive though and with no permanent injuries (what if you were left paralyzed?). Also that he learned his lesson. As for the other commenters here, have you never done anything stupid in your life? Maybe not on this magnitude, but then all you're doing is trying to rank order yourself ahead of him on the gradient of stupidity. What value does that add?

Do you think it would have been better if the Nigerian government intervened and tossed him in jail for a few years? How would you feel if the roles were reversed and it was a Nigerian coming to your country to defraud your government?

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#113
post #2

"I’m superstitious, so one night I told myself, All right, if I win a game of hearts with less than 15 points, I’ll do it. I’d never scored that low in my life, so when I landed at 11 points, I thought it was a sign and decided to buy a ticket." There's your problem right there. People like this are prone to other irrational thinking. I would bet that the vast majority of people who fall for this stuff are also deepl…

That reminds me. The other in-detail telling of falling for a Nigerian scam I've read was actually by the wife of a minister who continued to throw money at the scammers before shooting her husband dead after an argument about money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Winkler

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#114
post #12

It's easy to bash the victim of a scam, but reading through this I couldn't help but feel bad for this guy. He was down on his luck and looking for a way out. He got hit up by the wrong folks at the wrong time, and taken advantage of. Let's remember to blame the thugs who beat and robbed him first and foremost.

Wait, he was perfectly willing to assist in screwing over taxpayers in a foreign country if it meant getting ahead personally...

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#115
post #19

Even given proof that I have no reason to doubt, I am still find hard to believe there's an educated and, judging from the writing, reasonably intellectually capable person that can genuinely believe there's a Nigerian official in Lagos that would reach out to random stranger to seek help with stealing a million dollars. And then he has a friend who, being told everything and asked for the plane ticket money, didn't…

I think a big part of it is the money and wonder at hand. When faced with figures or factors you've never faced before personally, it's possible that the brain approaches the puzzle in an unfamiliar way and stops you from thinking "What a minute - this is dodgy and makes no sense."

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#116
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no fundamental difference here. Clasping your hands, asking a god for guidance in your head, then interpreting your own thoughts as the advice of a god is really no different from asking a god a question, putting your hands on a Ouija board, letting the ideomotor effect do its thing, then interpreting the output of the ideomotor effect as the word of your god. The only difference is that mainstream Christian…

There is a major difference: physical manifestation.

Only if the mind is not part of physics.

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#117
post #88
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have hard time believing Lutherans really go against direct word of the Bible (which is, as far as I know, according to their faith, a direct word of God) and practice divination, but I admit, I don't know too much about the details of the Lutheran faith. If I had to choose, I'd rather point at Calvinists with their predestination and signs of being among the saved, even though even there you can't really solicit t…

Lutherans, much like modern Catholics (the two seem to differ mainly in organizational layout these days, most of Martin Luther's grievances have been since corrected by the RCC..) and like most other protestants (I dare not say "all", but it probably is not far off) consult with their god. They ask their god for advice and guidance, and claim to receive responses in various forms. You can clasp your hands and ask yo…

>>> They ask their god for advice and guidance, and claim to receive responses in various forms.

I think you taking it too literally. When religious person says "God blessed me with the gift of children", they rarely mean that the God - as an actual supernatural being - came to them in person and produced their children as a gift. Most probably, they know exactly where the children come from, and were actually present when those were conceived and born, and even though God might have been mentioned on both occasions, rarely they would claim The Almighty was personally present there and did the work. It is a metaphor expressing the idea of the Providence and God's control and responsibility about what happens to people. In the same way, when they say "I prayed and God let me see the solution of my problem", they rarely mean God personally came down to them in a burning bush, spoke to them and gave them detailed step-by-step instruction of how to solve their problems. Etc., etc.

>>> Prayer is functionally indistinguishable from divination.

Prayer is nothing like the divination. Prayer is an expression of certain feelings or formulae about the supernatural. Divination is a mechanistic procedure in which one would, after performing required ritual, receive information about the future or otherwise inaccessible information. Of course, you can pray for success of your divination, or you can try to divine if your prayer would be followed by some event, but those are two functionally very different actions. Note that for prayer, one usually is required to be a believer, while for divination you don't really have to believe in anything as long as you perform the ritual properly. This, btw, is a big different between modern religion and old religions - most of the old religions couldn't care less what you think as long as you do proper procedures. Modern ones rather concerned about morals and feelings and beliefs and all that immaterial stuff.

>>> I have, on more than one occasion heard protestants describe various aspects of Catholicism as witchcraft and idolatry.

I have heard the whole Christianity described as idolatry. So what? The question if Christianity is idolatry or not from the POV of anybody is not the question we were discussing.

>>> whether it is acceptable to ask them to pray on your behalf

I can imagine how it may be a problem for an ostensibly monotheistic religion, but that does not make a prayer a divination. Of course, that does not mean actual Christians never engage in practices which are, in fact, divination - but people violating the premises of their own religion is nothing new. I can give you Jews eating pork, Muslims drinking wine and Christians hating their fellow man. It happens. However, the religion as a belief system and as a social mechanism does not endorse it.

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#118
post #88
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have hard time believing Lutherans really go against direct word of the Bible (which is, as far as I know, according to their faith, a direct word of God) and practice divination, but I admit, I don't know too much about the details of the Lutheran faith. If I had to choose, I'd rather point at Calvinists with their predestination and signs of being among the saved, even though even there you can't really solicit t…

Lutherans, much like modern Catholics (the two seem to differ mainly in organizational layout these days, most of Martin Luther's grievances have been since corrected by the RCC..) and like most other protestants (I dare not say "all", but it probably is not far off) consult with their god. They ask their god for advice and guidance, and claim to receive responses in various forms. You can clasp your hands and ask yo…

I'm a Lutheran and we expressly deny divination.

Prayer is not divination primarily in that receiving a 'voice form God' would by met with extreme suspicion and would not be shared. In Lutheran theology, we expect to find God's word written in the Bible.

http://cyclopedia.lcms.org/display.asp?t1=D&word=DIVINATION

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#119
post #78
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever said to you that prayer is "telepathic communication to God", awaiting a reply which needs interpreting, was not, I am afraid, very knowledgeable in the topic. At least as far as my limited knowledge of these goes, there's no such thing in these religions. Prayer can be many things to many people but it's certainly not an act of conjuring of some spirit and divining some revelations directly from God, like sh…

"38% of Americans say that they have done something because God told them to" http://today.yougov.com/news/2013/10/25/god-told-me/ Prayer is absolutely "telepathic communication to God" in at least one direction. Prayer is something you can do in complete silence, and God is still supposed to be able to hear you. In any other context we would call that "telepathy". The other direction is not quite as clear, but clear…

>>> Prayer is absolutely "telepathic communication to God" in at least one direction

Which one would that be? If the prayer were God reading your mind, you didn't need to pray - God is omniscient, so He already knows what you're praying about. Moreover, He already knew what you would be praying about before you started. Why they are praying then, you ask? Try to answer this question (honestly, not jumping to the convenient conclusion of "all of them are idiots that couldn't see such a simple thing") and you'll get closer to understanding what prayer is. If they prayer would be you reading God's mind - I don't think any Avraamic religion would adopt such blasphemy as a human reading God's mind and understanding it.

>>> and God is still supposed to be able to hear you

You realize you just assumed God is a human which needs sounds to communicate, right?

>>> In any other context we would call that "telepathy".

Really? I just communicated with you in complete silence, yet it wasn't telepathy ;) Moreover, I simultaneously communicated with thousand other people, and didn't have to shout very hard either. Obviously, I'm some kind of wizard or something :)

I think you'd not get very far if you anthropomorphize God and imagine it's just some bearded dude sitting on a cloud. I, of course, far from prescribing a religion to you - if you want to believe this is how the God is, feel free to. I'm just saying it's probably not what most of the Christians believe in.

>>> a simple command to trust that God or the lesser beings will do what's best.

So where's a divination in that? Where is the fortune telling? I'd say if one of the fortune tellers would tell you "hope for the best and eventually something good would happen" you'd not pay much for that. That's why actual fortune tellers are much more verbose. I wouldn't vouch for the value of any of the verbs, but at least you get what you paid for.

The second answer, btw, explicitly says prayers are not magic - they are not supposed to force God (or any other supernatural being) into doing your bidding (that's basically what magic is about). It says it is a statement of trust, instead.

Re: I Flew to Lagos and Got Beaten Up Because of a Nigerian Email Scam

#120
post #19

Even given proof that I have no reason to doubt, I am still find hard to believe there's an educated and, judging from the writing, reasonably intellectually capable person that can genuinely believe there's a Nigerian official in Lagos that would reach out to random stranger to seek help with stealing a million dollars. And then he has a friend who, being told everything and asked for the plane ticket money, didn't…

Con men can be extremely convincing at times. Also note that the author said he was desperate for money, and had never received an email like that before. All of that combined with some slicktalking, and you can see how things like this are possible.

I know. I can totally see an intelligent man, including myself, being conned by a professional. I probably have been already, as I gave small amounts of money to people asking for money under various premises, and I'm pretty sure at least some of them lied. I also had done some bad deals with some providers that turned out to be crooks and lost some money on that. So I can see how it can happen. And I don't even mention politicians who do it every day. But the overall premise of this particular story should have raised some red flags, no? It's one thing selling somebody a property with an ocean view in Nevada - not everybody knows where Nevada is, after all - and another thing getting an offer of a million dollars out of the blue from a Nigerian criminal.
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