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If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

theatlantic.com

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Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#351

Post by PavlovsCat »

bunderbunder wrote: post #187
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have made these accusations without any evidence. Be responsible and ethical and show us something real, if you have it. (note: I am not taking sides.)

There's really nothing extraordinary here; it's just boring old business-as-usual American politics. Consider reactions to the idea that we cancel the Joint Strike Fighter program. Long story short, every politician who had a contractor working on the project in his constituency started making noise about all the jobs that would be lost if we were to shut down the program. No secret conspiracy; that was an open debat…

> things just sort of roll along from there

“They actually like deploying. So when you go visit them in Afghanistan, in the western Pacific, you don't get questions like, ‘Oh, shoot, what's sequester going to do to me?’ They know how to spell it, but that's about it. They want to know, ‘Hey, Commandant, you know, is this going to be the last deployment I'm going to get on, or am I going to actually be able to go to combat again or be able to go to WESTPAC (western pacific) again,” Amos said. “So our morale's pretty high right now, and I think it's going to stay high as long as we give them something to look forward to. The reorientation to the Pacific has just reenergized a lot of Marines as they think about Afghanistan: ‘My gosh, we're coming out of there in 2014. What's left?’ Well, we talk about Darwin, Australia. We talk about Japan. We talk about Guam. And their eyes light up.”

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2013/11/after-war-budget-cut...

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#352

Post by GFischer »

yodsanklai wrote: post #288

Concretely, at our level, what could be done to prevent those things from happening? voting doesn't seem to be working (esp. for those of us who aren't american). The problem is that our democracies are broken. Most people aren't well informed or unconcerned, and those who are don't have enough weight to make a difference. Maybe we could find a way to make our democracies functioning better via public discussion on t…

It's a fine dream. I've read about a few politics startup attempts but they disappeared off the face of the earth quickly (though I did see some guys asking for funding recently). It would be nice if some could share their stories, where they failed and what they did well.

Some people will always have more clout than others. Even here on Hacker News you have people with (I believe deservedly) more weight than others.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#353

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

mikeash wrote: post #94
alexeisadeski3 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a whole lot of choice - you want the US to just let the targets run around? Send a strike team in each time? Drop a real bomb or cruise missile (even more civilian casualties - those weapons are larger)?

What would your answer be if the "targets", instead of mysterious and scary terrorists in foreign lands, were regular boring murderers living in the US?

Whenever the "targets" have been found within US jurisdiction, they have been treated as regular boring murderers!

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#354

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

sethbannon wrote: post #12

The way America is conducting the war on terror is both self-defeating and morally repugnant.

Morally repugnant? I can see the case being made even if I don't agree with it.

But self-defeating? Not sure I can even see a plausible argument for that one.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#355

Post by alexeisadeski3 »

brazzy wrote: post #229
aaronem wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, of course. Because there is no meaningful difference between the government of the United States and that of North Korea.

The difference is getting smaller every day. That's what this is about.

The North Korean government has liberalized a bit, but let's not give them too much credit.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#356

Post by qbrass »

d23 wrote: post #258
hawleyal wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

War cannot be conducted any other way.

The article's premise is silly -- pure and simple. If you believe war is justified in some cases, then there will be casualties. If a wedding had been hit in Germany toward the beginning of WWII, would we say US involvement should have ceased?

Involvement couldn't have ceased, since the US wasn't involved in the beginning of WWII.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#357

Post by aagha »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #253
rdtsc wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is profitable. If terrorists disappeared tomorrow. Let's say we use our surgical strike weapons to target every cell every member, and in one hour they are gone. What would happen? Billions of dollars disappear from the pockets of everyone in the chain. Military contractors, drone maintenance, promotions, bonuses, career advancements, no more completed missions, medals, no job to go to. So the direct financial and…

You realize that the fiction of a coherent "Military Industrial Complex" has been debunked several times right? One by the General Accounting Office showed that military contractors actually had higher profits in peacetime than wartime because they got money for 'research' and didn't have to actually produce any product.

In aggregate (military contractors) sure, but there's no doubt individuals who benefit more during war time than peacetime.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#358

Post by khafra »

dopamean wrote: post #261
khafra wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We deem one group of people to be a threat A minority male between 14 and 40 is more likely to mug someone than a 70 year old caucasian woman; that's not something made up by racist conservatives. But if there's such a thing as rights , they must apply even to higher-threat demographics. One interesting exercise is thinking about base rates of mugging, and likelihood ratios for mugging, and discerning your own pers…

I didn't call anyone a racist conservative. Also, I dont have a breaking point for "4th amendment suspension" in the case of people not suspected of a crime walking on a public street.

> people not suspected of a crime walking on a public street.

But they are suspected of a crime, because of their demographic category.

I should have explained the thought experiment more: Suppose future sociologists identify some identifiable cluster of traits that corresponds with a 99.9% likelihood of committing a mugging on any given day--if you see someone with these traits, it's overwhelmingly likely that they've either just mugged someone, or they're just about to mug someone.

With that level of certainty, you're either in favor of unreasonably searching them and seizing their mugging weapons (or some other intrusive measure like constant monitoring), or you're in favor of unnecessary muggings.

The reason this is a thought experiment is that no real-world identifiable group is that likely to commit crimes. But there is a measurable likelihood ratio, even if treating everyone equally is more important than it.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#359

Post by mseebach »

willvarfar wrote: post #262
mseebach wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Military contractors, drone maintenance, promotions, bonuses, career advancements, no more completed missions, medals, no job to go to. You forgot the one group of people who could actually stop this, literally overnight: Politicians.

Aren't they in the pocket, though?

They might be, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the full legal power to pull the plug on this and that nobody else on the list has that.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#360

Post by d23 »

qbrass wrote: post #356
d23 wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article's premise is silly -- pure and simple. If you believe war is justified in some cases, then there will be casualties. If a wedding had been hit in Germany toward the beginning of WWII, would we say US involvement should have ceased?

Involvement couldn't have ceased, since the US wasn't involved in the beginning of WWII.

For clarification, I meant at the beginning of US involvement.
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