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Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

theguardian.com

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Re: Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

#31

Post by gress »

patrickaljord wrote: post #27
gress wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It it your perspective that intentionally violating user privacy causes no harm?

Google is not violating anyone's privacy unless you've already decided they're guilty. Moreover, no one's forced to use google services. If anyone is violating people's privacy without their consents, it would be the government.

Whether Google is guilty or not has nothing to do with the seriousness of the accusation which the parent was trying to dismiss, and nowhere do I presume them guilty. However Google settled the same accusation by acknowledging the action and paying a fine to the FCC, so the only question is whether what they have done is illegal, not whether they did it.

Directing attention to the government is a false dichotomy which makes it seem like you're trying to protect Google from scrutiny. Both can be guilty. We don't pardon thieves because they aren't as bad as murderers.

Also nobody being forced to use google's services is irrelevant. The question is whether Google deceived those who did make that choice.

If you think the best remedy is for users to make their own choice about using Google services, don't you want these behaviors to be exposed and publicly scrutinized so that users can make an informed decision?

Re: Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

#32

Post by grecy »

yid wrote: post #30
grecy wrote: post #28

If this works for Google, I imagine I can have a business based in Uruguay that sells weed to the world, and I only have to face court in Uruguay when people claim it's illegal in their country?

> If this works for Google, I imagine I can have a business based in Uruguay that sells weed to the world, and I only have to face court in Uruguay when people claim it's illegal in their country? I'd imagine this would be perfectly legal if Uruguay has legal provisions that state that shipping weed to other countries is legal. I'd also imagine that if they didn't have such a clause, they'd soon run afoul on various…

> I'd imagine this would be perfectly legal if Uruguay has legal provisions that state that shipping weed to other countries is legal.

I'm sure California doesn't have a provision that says collecting user information for people in the UK is legal.

In short, the laws of one region are only concerned with that region, they don't care what happens outside that.. so Google using CA's laws on UK residents is like me using Uruguay's laws on CA residents.

I've always thought a good way to get this stupidity into the headlines would be if this would be if say Saudi Arabia started charging every female that drives a car in the world, or if Australia started charging people for driving on the Right side of the road in North America. Applying the laws of one country onto people in another country is absurd.

Re: Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

#33

Post by DerpDerpDerp »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #25
arethuza wrote: post #2

I think that headline is slightly misleading - Google is running an argument in court that as their service is supplied from the US then they can't be sued here in the UK. If the courts decide otherwise then Google has quite a lot of assets here in the UK in the form of Google UK Limited - obviously tiny compared to the US parent but still a pretty substantial organization by any objective measure. I tend to side wit…

They also include this in their Terms of Service[1] - "All claims arising out of or relating to these terms or the Services will be litigated exclusively in the federal or state courts of Santa Clara County, California, USA, and you and Google consent to personal jurisdiction in those courts. " Which basically says if you use Google services you agree that any dispute you have with Google will be litigated in a Calif…

I'm not sure this would even hold up internal to the US.

A state could likely decide that by doing business in that state (eg, having offices located there) that Google was subject to its laws when dealing with residents of that state.

Contracts of adhesion aren't always enforceable.

Re: Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

#34

Post by brainsic »

gress wrote: post #31
patrickaljord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is not violating anyone's privacy unless you've already decided they're guilty. Moreover, no one's forced to use google services. If anyone is violating people's privacy without their consents, it would be the government.

Whether Google is guilty or not has nothing to do with the seriousness of the accusation which the parent was trying to dismiss, and nowhere do I presume them guilty. However Google settled the same accusation by acknowledging the action and paying a fine to the FCC, so the only question is whether what they have done is illegal, not whether they did it. Directing attention to the government is a false dichotomy whic…

FTC != FCC. Also Google didn't admit guilt in said settlement.

It's not a question of deception, it's about a bug that was patched once disclosed with no indication to it being anything other than a mistake. It's a petty case brought by petty people, and your factless defence of their "cause" is puzzling.

Re: Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

#35

Post by ChuckMcM »

DerpDerpDerp wrote: post #33
ChuckMcM wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They also include this in their Terms of Service[1] - "All claims arising out of or relating to these terms or the Services will be litigated exclusively in the federal or state courts of Santa Clara County, California, USA, and you and Google consent to personal jurisdiction in those courts. " Which basically says if you use Google services you agree that any dispute you have with Google will be litigated in a Calif…

I'm not sure this would even hold up internal to the US. A state could likely decide that by doing business in that state (eg, having offices located there) that Google was subject to its laws when dealing with residents of that state. Contracts of adhesion aren't always enforceable.

[1] http://blog.ericgoldman.org/archives/2013/11/googles-forum-s...

Re: Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

#36

Post by adrianlmm »

1010011010 wrote: post #14
mf3i21 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because since the revelations about Google providing the NSA direct access to servers, they are extremely unpopular. Combine that with their reluctance to pax any form of tax, and they have the same public image as an arms dealer.

"Google providing the NSA direct access to servers" [Citation needed] The NSA appears to have tapped 3rd party fiber links, and not Google directly. Google is now encrypting data across those links, moving all client access to use https, and advocating for http/2.0 (based on SPDY) to allow only encrypted connections.

Not really, Google has been cooperating with the NSA.

Re: Google argues lawsuit concerning UK privacy should be brought in California

#37

Post by 1010011010 »

adrianlmm wrote: post #36
1010011010 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Google providing the NSA direct access to servers" [Citation needed] The NSA appears to have tapped 3rd party fiber links, and not Google directly. Google is now encrypting data across those links, moving all client access to use https, and advocating for http/2.0 (based on SPDY) to allow only encrypted connections.

Not really, Google has been cooperating with the NSA.

[citation needed]
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