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Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#41

Post by dragonwriter »

dopamean wrote: post #25
spodek wrote: post #18

> The US National Security Agency is considering offering an amnesty to fugitive intelligence contractor Edward Snowden if he agrees to stop leaking secret documents, an NSA official says. That means as bad for the NSA as giving amnesty would be, they consider remaining documents worse . That means however bad you've found the revelations so far, expect worse to come. As for Snowden, I presume he's smart enough to re…

How does the NSA offer amnesty anyway? Is it not the Justice Department that would bring charges in this situation? It's like the family of a murder victim offering amnesty to the murderer... it's not really up to them.

> How does the NSA offer amnesty anyway?

The NSA isn't offering amnesty. An NSA official is saying that he would recommend offering amnesty if doing so would assure no further leaks of the information Snowden has revealed. Presumably, the Justice Department would be the recipient (or among the recipients) of that recommendation.

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#42

Post by Zombieball »

spodek wrote: post #18

> The US National Security Agency is considering offering an amnesty to fugitive intelligence contractor Edward Snowden if he agrees to stop leaking secret documents, an NSA official says. That means as bad for the NSA as giving amnesty would be, they consider remaining documents worse . That means however bad you've found the revelations so far, expect worse to come. As for Snowden, I presume he's smart enough to re…

I believe it was mentioned that the NSA still doesn't quite know how much Edward Snowden made off with. (Who knows if that statement is truthful or not). So it doesn't necessarily mean that the remaining documents he has are worse. But it would definitely imply they are in possession of secrets worse than the ones already revealed!

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#43

Post by rhizome »

nexttimer wrote: post #2

In plain English, this NSA is saying: "If we 'consider' this, it's because the most important information is still not out there, yet." So it's basically counter-productive, unless your goal is to get the public behind the NSA in order to hang Snowden one way or the other.

unless your goal is to get the public behind the NSA in order to hang Snowden one way or the other

My opinion is that this is exactly it. Once Snowden is here, the "amnesty" will end just as soon as they can hang a false statements charge on him, then parade him in handcuffs or on trial to discredit everything associated with him, including Greenwald et al stories, after which they can continue their business as usual. Make no mistake that Clapper, Alexander and Holder would LOVE to make a Rosenberg out of him.

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#44

Post by avn2109 »

bmelton wrote: post #36
spodek wrote: post #18

> The US National Security Agency is considering offering an amnesty to fugitive intelligence contractor Edward Snowden if he agrees to stop leaking secret documents, an NSA official says. That means as bad for the NSA as giving amnesty would be, they consider remaining documents worse . That means however bad you've found the revelations so far, expect worse to come. As for Snowden, I presume he's smart enough to re…

Or, alternatively, it means that the offer of amnesty is a lie, and just being posed as an attempt to capture Snowden and the documents. That's not even untenable at this point either -- he's just enough outside of the public eye that it would be easy to manufacture another crime that he's also guilty of for which he could be separately arrested. Capture him during the exchange, wait a couple of weeks, then announce…

The cynic in me likes this interpretation, but "the documents" aren't capture-able any longer because they're not all in one place. Several people have access to them, some of whom are not stupid (Bruce Schneier, etc.) and can operate redundant distributed cryptosystems. The cat is out of the bag on this one and it's never going back in. This doesn't stop them from wanting to arrest/torture/kill/* Snowden, but the government isn't dumb enough to imagine they'll ever get their papers back.

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#45

Post by drzaiusapelord »

ds9 wrote: post #31
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly determine's the press's release schedule? Ratings? Milking? Ad conversation stats? No idea why everything hasn't been released yet. It also isn't bulk data like the wikileaks fiasco. Looks like NSA program specs. Redaction can't be taking this long. Funny how Snowden is now caught between a dictator in Russia and the Western for-profit press. Probably not a good place to be. I imagine he's smart enough t…

The slow release schedule keeps the info in the news throughout the series. If it were dumped all at once, it would be "forgotten" by mainstream media by the time writers would have time to sort thru it.

Can you cite this? Who is making this call? Greenwald? Did he specifically claim this methodology?

I see an ironic lack of transparency here.

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#46

Post by drzaiusapelord »

eli wrote: post #34
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly determine's the press's release schedule? Ratings? Milking? Ad conversation stats? No idea why everything hasn't been released yet. It also isn't bulk data like the wikileaks fiasco. Looks like NSA program specs. Redaction can't be taking this long. Funny how Snowden is now caught between a dictator in Russia and the Western for-profit press. Probably not a good place to be. I imagine he's smart enough t…

I would imagine it takes a huge amount of work to properly report these stories. It takes time authenticate the documents (you can't just assume everything you get is accurate because it supposedly came from Snowden), you have to decipher all the intelligence jargon and put the story in context. You have to make sure you don't accidentally do something that puts American intelligence people in harm's way (my understa…

That's maybe a safe guess but who is doing this? Is Greenwald specifically saying he's doing this? If so, I'd appreciate a cite.

I think there's an ironic lack of transparency here and releases come out on some arbitrary (or planned) schedule that no one is privy to.

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#48

Post by chris_mahan »

ds9 wrote: post #31
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly determine's the press's release schedule? Ratings? Milking? Ad conversation stats? No idea why everything hasn't been released yet. It also isn't bulk data like the wikileaks fiasco. Looks like NSA program specs. Redaction can't be taking this long. Funny how Snowden is now caught between a dictator in Russia and the Western for-profit press. Probably not a good place to be. I imagine he's smart enough t…

The slow release schedule keeps the info in the news throughout the series. If it were dumped all at once, it would be "forgotten" by mainstream media by the time writers would have time to sort thru it.

Perhaps they can drag this on until the next presidential election race? (Oh please say it is so!)

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#49

Post by ncallaway »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #46
eli wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine it takes a huge amount of work to properly report these stories. It takes time authenticate the documents (you can't just assume everything you get is accurate because it supposedly came from Snowden), you have to decipher all the intelligence jargon and put the story in context. You have to make sure you don't accidentally do something that puts American intelligence people in harm's way (my understa…

That's maybe a safe guess but who is doing this? Is Greenwald specifically saying he's doing this? If so, I'd appreciate a cite. I think there's an ironic lack of transparency here and releases come out on some arbitrary (or planned) schedule that no one is privy to.

Glenn Greenwald did an AMA on reddit a while back where he was asked similar questions:

Q: I have to ask why the leaks are piece fed to the public? Why cant it be one big release? Thanks in advance.

Glenn Greenwald: Many reasons:

1) It's irresponsible to dump documents without first understanding them and the consequences of publication.

2) It's 100% contrary to the agreement we made with our source when he came to us and talked about how he wanted us to report on them (if he wanted them all dumped, he wouldn't have needed us: he could have done it himself).

3) It would be impossible for the public to process a huge, indiscriminate dump, and media outlets would not care enough to read through them and report them because they'd have no vested interest in doing so (that's what WikiLeaks learned long ago, which is why they began partnering with media outlets on an exclusive basis for its releases).

4) The debate that we should be having would get overwhelmed by accusations that we were being irresponsible and helping the Terrorists; in other words, it would be strategically dumb to do.

5) There are already lots of risks for people reporting on these documents; there would be seriously heightened risks for anyone involved if they were just indiscriminately dumped.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1nisdy/were_glenn_gree...

Q: Out of the ones you have deemed to be worth releasing, what percentage of the Snowden documents have you released so far?

Glenn Greenwald: As I've said many times, there are thousands of documents, and the majority of ones that should (and will) be published still remain. Large numbers of people from around the world - including me and Laura Poitras - work every day as their primary or only occupation on getting these documents vetted, understood, and reported on as soon as possible.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1nisdy/were_glenn_gree...

Re: Edward Snowden leaks: NSA 'debates' amnesty

#50

Post by nostrademons »

ds9 wrote: post #33
wil421 wrote: post #12

This is so stupid. Snowden hasnt leaked documents since he initially gave it to the first few reporters. Those reporters have stated from the beginning it was in their hands now to determine what is reported to the public. > This is analogous to a hostage taker taking 50 people hostage, shooting 10, and then say, 'if you give me full amnesty, I'll let the other 40 go'. What do you do? That is absolutely absurd. No li…

NSA probably knows the trove may include certain info that would be super-embarrasing for the US government, and Snowden or Greenwald allusions to "even bigger" (or similar expressions) items support this possibility. Yet undoubtedly the NSA, DOJ and other state elements, despite how we like to snark at the technical ignorance of politicians, must realize it is going to be practically impossible to suppress all the p…

They have a PR problem. Attempting to "meet in the middle" (even if the middle is still somewhat ridiculous) makes them appear like reasonable people and somewhat mitigates their PR problem.
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