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NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

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Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#91

Post by tootie »

pmorici wrote: post #59
tootie wrote: post #32

The fact that the NSA needed help to setup Sharepoint fills me with confidence that they have no idea what they're doing. I'm guessing the password to the call log metadata is on a post-it note somewhere.

The government's workforce is made of of a very large percentage of contractors 50%+. The article makes it seem like he was a unicorn but that probably wasn't the case. Contractor employees often get paid more than a government counter part doing the same job[0]. If I had to venture a guess as to why this is I'd say it is because those contractors turn around and make political donations where as many government empl…

Government hires contractors for the same reason private companies do. They can easily ramp up headcount then ramp it back down. It's doubly valuable when your full-time workforce are protected by numerous legal and union regulations. When a project needs 100 technical resources asap, recruiting that many people is very difficult and expensive. Even for a private company without regulations on pay and hours. There are only a handful of IT services companies out there capable of staffing that many people at once, so bidding is less than competitive. If funding is cut for that project, just fire the contractor and you're free and clear.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#92

Post by jessaustin »

nitrogen wrote: post #82
lukev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

Here's an idea: let's hold a worldwide vote on NSA spying, in the true spirit of democracy. 300mil in favor, 6.7bil against.

You're really overestimating the hypothetical votes in favor.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#93

Post by tootie »

lukev wrote: post #34
Theodores wrote: post #6

Snowden differs from many of the whistleblower ilk in that there is nothing to dislike about his character (yet). The media have not dished any dirt, none of his friends/family/ex-lovers have came forward with anything untoward about him and he hasn't shown any signs of being deluded. Even if you try your hardest to 'believe', a lot of whistleblowers have been deluded one way or another. They can be overly indoctrina…

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

I understand your point, but the NSA's mission is confined to cross-border communication. Eavesdropping within foreign governments should not be allowed.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#94

Post by rayiner »

pstuart wrote: post #38
lukev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

What moral ground does the United States have for directly invading the personal communications of the leaders of its allies? Ostensibly this is all about protecting the itself from danger. What is the threat posed by, say, Germany?

> What is the threat posed by, say, Germany?

Well they're one of the world's major industrial powers and just a couple of generations ago they threatened to take over all of Europe.

So much of the outrage over NSA spying (abroad) is predicated on this foolish idea that we live in a time outside of history, that while the West may have spent the better part of the last millennium embroiled in warfare with each other, that our generation is the first to be so enlightened as to make that unthinkable.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#95

Post by simoncion »

lukev wrote: post #49
furyofantares wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everyone knows they are doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy, why is it problematic that it leaked?

The details are important. That's why intelligence agencies are so secretive to begin with - unveiling an asset, be it an actual agent or an electronic access point usually has the effect of denying future access to that asset, thereby damaging the US's capability. Again, you could legitimately argue that that's a good thing in the global scheme of things. You could also argue that sabotaging the US air force is a go…

> ...unveiling an asset, be it an actual agent or an electronic access point...

Sure, but haven't the caretakers of the document cache gone to great lengths to only reveal the coarse-grained details of what a program does, and generally how it does it, but not the particulars?

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#96

Post by rayiner »

rpenm wrote: post #53
lukev wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying is a good thing, but that's a policy decision on what the NSA's mission should be . "whistleblowing" that it's happening doesn't really change anything.

A policy decision most Americans normally have no say in. It would never have come to public debate before the revelations.

What are you talking about? The fact of American agencies spying on the world has been well-known since at least World War II, and is the stuff of major motion pictures, etc.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#97

Post by simoncion »

JonSkeptic wrote: post #86
nabla9 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Snowden has not published anything really critical about NSA surveillance on China, Russia, Iran, etc. His risk/reward calculation seems to be on line with mine. Of course his leaks do some damage to U.S. foreign policy, but that's acceptable collateral damage. His leaks help to shape the power balance between government and citizens in liberal democracies.

>Correct me if I'm wrong You are and it would take a lot to correct that statement. I'd start at the timeline: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/multimedia/timeline-ed... Most of what Snowden revealed did not relate to domestic spying overreach. Hell, he wasn't even in China for a week before he revealed NSA programs that spy on the Chinese. Snowden has done more damage to his cause than the government ever could…

> ...but he went to China and then to Russia, taking an encrypted hardrive with him!

[citation needed]

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#98

Post by nabla9 »

JonSkeptic wrote: post #86
nabla9 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Snowden has not published anything really critical about NSA surveillance on China, Russia, Iran, etc. His risk/reward calculation seems to be on line with mine. Of course his leaks do some damage to U.S. foreign policy, but that's acceptable collateral damage. His leaks help to shape the power balance between government and citizens in liberal democracies.

>Correct me if I'm wrong You are and it would take a lot to correct that statement. I'd start at the timeline: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/multimedia/timeline-ed... Most of what Snowden revealed did not relate to domestic spying overreach. Hell, he wasn't even in China for a week before he revealed NSA programs that spy on the Chinese. Snowden has done more damage to his cause than the government ever could…

Please provide exact document where he reveals documents about spying China, Russia etc. that are not linked to domestic spying.

>At this point, he is a spy from every angle you look at it.

Remember that not even U.S. government is not charging him from being a spy.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#99

Post by no_wave »

sliverstorm wrote: post #85
rpenm wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The latter often describes civil disobedience.

Sabotage and civil disobedience don't really overlap. Sabotage: I will secretly undermine your operations and try not to get caught. My sabotage is operational- it is most effective when undiscovered. Civil disobedience: I will publicly defy your rules with every intention of being apprehended. My defiance is political- it achieves nothing by itself, and must be public. Yes, both involve breaking rules, but that is w…

Why should someone consent to being apprehended if they are protesting the same laws that they are breaking?

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#100

Post by jessaustin »

fit2rule wrote: post #84
soulrain wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true but you have to admit over time the means of oppression have become more nuanced and complicated. Few people realize that most companies are little more than intellectual property, a network to collaborate on expand said IP and the corp's ability to secure information. Large corps and govt's not only understand this, they are defined by it, thus the need for whistle blowers more now than ever as the foot…

Education always will be, and currently is, the tip of the spear. If you can deem to educate someone, you can deem to educate another. Once you gain a mass, education becomes lesser than the whole. This is why: we humans constantly need new means by which we can enlighten ourselves. Within a generation, todays enlightenment becomes de rigeur, de jour, de jure. This is the nature of the trap we find ourselves; escapin…

Education has that potential, but it also has the potential to indoctrinate and pacify. I agree that innovations in education are exciting and valuable.
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