s/American/Christian/
If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
191–200 of 361 posts
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#192> Five of those killed were suspected of involvement with Al Qaeda, but the remainder were unconnected with the militancy, Yemeni security officials said." > The New York Times reported in 2013 that the Obama Administration embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties, which in effect counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants. So 5 people were of military-age and male? Given a size o…
The business of considering all military-age males as combatants is really not all that surprising to me. I live in New York and here, in some neighborhoods, the police consider all minority males 14-40 (I really have no idea of the top end) to be suspected criminals worthy of a random search while simply walking down the street. This is the way we treat people. We deem one group of people to be a threat and they imm…
> We deem one group of people to be a threat
A minority male between 14 and 40 is more likely to mug someone than a 70 year old caucasian woman; that's not something made up by racist conservatives. But if there's such a thing as rights, they must apply even to higher-threat demographics.
One interesting exercise is thinking about base rates of mugging, and likelihood ratios for mugging, and discerning your own personal "4th amendment suspension" breaking point for each percentage.
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#193It's okay when we do it.
Lets be honest here, if Bush were doing this the press and every damn Democrat in Congress would be up in arms and demanding halts and immediate investigations. so a better title would be, If Bush were President we'd ground out fleet.
Nahh, that's righty persectution-complex stuff.
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Blackstone's formulation is one of the most important parts of English and American common law. At the point where it becomes acceptable and legal to knowingly murder innocent people in order to punish the guilty, all legitimacy is forfeit. This, of course, has already happened.
If only our enemies operated on the same "presumption of innocence" as we (the US) claim to.
We must act better than our enemies lest we become the enemy.
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#195Weddings and funerals are actually targeted specifically because those events are two that even highly sought-after targets attend despite the dangers. Also, the subsequent funerals for those killed at the targeted wedding would then be targeted as well. You can either agree or disagree, but if you feel the target is accurate based on your intelligence the venue doesn't really matter IMHO. Civilians will be killed no…
I expected down votes so I'm cool with the negative karma. However my point was not to agree with the tactic, only to point out that it wasn't like we (the US) hit a wedding convey by accident but rather it was targeted because it's (weddings/funerals) exploited by terrorists to travel and keep their movements concealed.
For some this would make the actions worse, however I appreciate the debate as it's worth having. Should we care about our enemies traditions and cultural beliefs when waging war?
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#196Not all that surpising. As was made clear during the Snowden leaks the USG doesn't consider human beings who aren't US citizens to have the same rights as Americans.
It's not all US citizens. Only well-connected, wealthy US citizens have rights. The rest of the US citizens are semi-disposable like the rest of the world.
There are two Americas now; the first consists of those who perform surveillance and the second are the suspects.
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#197Can a Nobel peace prize be rescinded?
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is profitable. If terrorists disappeared tomorrow. Let's say we use our surgical strike weapons to target every cell every member, and in one hour they are gone. What would happen? Billions of dollars disappear from the pockets of everyone in the chain. Military contractors, drone maintenance, promotions, bonuses, career advancements, no more completed missions, medals, no job to go to. So the direct financial and…
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have made these accusations without any evidence. Be responsible and ethical and show us something real, if you have it. (note: I am not taking sides.)
It's a simple economic analysis. People tend (this word is important) to follow their incentives. If a person on welfare faces a high effective marginal tax when they start working (due to paying taxes plus losing benefits) they will not start working. If a CEO is compensated exclusively based on short-term share price, they will ramp up the share price even if they have to hurt the company to do it.
We have seen mountains of evidence that people follow their incentives even when those incentives lead to perverse, counter-productive behaviors. It's basically what the entire "Freakonomics" franchise is built on, for example.
We also know that the incentives faced by the military establishment are pushing toward more war, more violence. This is obvious, just look at the early '90s when we thought the world was going to be more peaceful. We cut back on military spending, military contractors howled and screamed.
So, while we have no direct evidence that anyone in the military establishment is willfully disregarding civilian casualties, we do have extremely strong inferential evidence that some people in the military establishment are likely to do so, now, in the past, and in the future.
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#199Earlier quoted context omitted.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. You have made these accusations without any evidence. Be responsible and ethical and show us something real, if you have it. (note: I am not taking sides.)
There's really nothing extraordinary here; it's just boring old business-as-usual American politics. Consider reactions to the idea that we cancel the Joint Strike Fighter program. Long story short, every politician who had a contractor working on the project in his constituency started making noise about all the jobs that would be lost if we were to shut down the program. No secret conspiracy; that was an open debat…
We know that people go after profits. Nothing extraordinary here. What is extraordinary is the assertion that people acted unethically and (probably) also illegally.
Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet
#200Not all that surpising. As was made clear during the Snowden leaks the USG doesn't consider human beings who aren't US citizens to have the same rights as Americans.
> USG doesn't consider human beings who aren't US citizens to have the same rights as Americans.
Of course? Ask Chinese citizens about their right to free speech.