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NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

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Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#41

Post by fidotron »

cryoshon wrote: post #14
Theodores wrote: post #6

Snowden differs from many of the whistleblower ilk in that there is nothing to dislike about his character (yet). The media have not dished any dirt, none of his friends/family/ex-lovers have came forward with anything untoward about him and he hasn't shown any signs of being deluded. Even if you try your hardest to 'believe', a lot of whistleblowers have been deluded one way or another. They can be overly indoctrina…

The idea that the character of the whistleblowers themselves has anything to do with the quality or impact of the information they leak is a propaganda trick enforced by the media-- a leak with a face can be discredited if the face can be discredited, and in the 21st century, everyone has skeletons in the closet. Additionally, if your aim is to obscure, it's far easier to focus on the flaws of the person behind the l…

There is legitimacy if you assume the leaker is the only source of the information. In such cases it logically follows that trust in the contents of the leak is reliant on trust in the leaker, until other ways to authenticate the contents of the leak become available.

Once separately verified the discrediting game is utter nonsense though.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#42

Post by talmand »

ww520 wrote: post #31

It's sad that keeping a copy of the constitution is seen as a sign of eccentricity.

I find it particularly sad since I have a copy sitting on my desk at this moment. It's an interesting read, I would suggest it to anyone that hasn't yet.

It also has the Declaration of Independence at the end as well. Doubly eccentric?

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#43

Post by joshstrange »

lukev wrote: post #34
Theodores wrote: post #6

Snowden differs from many of the whistleblower ilk in that there is nothing to dislike about his character (yet). The media have not dished any dirt, none of his friends/family/ex-lovers have came forward with anything untoward about him and he hasn't shown any signs of being deluded. Even if you try your hardest to 'believe', a lot of whistleblowers have been deluded one way or another. They can be overly indoctrina…

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

I'm interested to know what you think he could have released that would have allowed him, as you imply, to stay in the "good graces" of the NSA/USA yet provided enough information to the US public that would not have been written off as a crazy person?

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#45

Post by lukev »

pstuart wrote: post #38
lukev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

What moral ground does the United States have for directly invading the personal communications of the leaders of its allies? Ostensibly this is all about protecting the itself from danger. What is the threat posed by, say, Germany?

I'm not saying is a good thing, but that's a policy decision on what the NSA's mission should be. "whistleblowing" that it's happening doesn't really change anything.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#46

Post by lukev »

joshstrange wrote: post #43
lukev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

I'm interested to know what you think he could have released that would have allowed him, as you imply, to stay in the "good graces" of the NSA/USA yet provided enough information to the US public that would not have been written off as a crazy person?

The stuff about tapping major ISPs, the ubiquitous metadata collection, etc. That's the true whistleblower material, the stuff that will get people angry and clamoring for change, and I think releasing the rest of it actually hurts that goal.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#47

Post by rdl »

Theodores wrote: post #6

Snowden differs from many of the whistleblower ilk in that there is nothing to dislike about his character (yet). The media have not dished any dirt, none of his friends/family/ex-lovers have came forward with anything untoward about him and he hasn't shown any signs of being deluded. Even if you try your hardest to 'believe', a lot of whistleblowers have been deluded one way or another. They can be overly indoctrina…

I've never found anything to dislike about the actual NSA whistleblowers (Binney, Drake, Wiebe). I guess the only problem I have with Drake is that he hasn't prioritized personal and family income/wealth enough -- he lost his pension, and is now working at an Apple Store; he could have gotten a much more lucrative job.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#48

Post by nswanberg »

Theodores wrote: post #6

Snowden differs from many of the whistleblower ilk in that there is nothing to dislike about his character (yet). The media have not dished any dirt, none of his friends/family/ex-lovers have came forward with anything untoward about him and he hasn't shown any signs of being deluded. Even if you try your hardest to 'believe', a lot of whistleblowers have been deluded one way or another. They can be overly indoctrina…

Arstechnica figured out that Snowden had been a commenter there (or maybe on their chat system) and had published the threads, but nothing very scandalous besides writing some swears and defending the NSA.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#49

Post by lukev »

furyofantares wrote: post #40
lukev wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

If everyone knows they are doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy, why is it problematic that it leaked?

The details are important. That's why intelligence agencies are so secretive to begin with - unveiling an asset, be it an actual agent or an electronic access point usually has the effect of denying future access to that asset, thereby damaging the US's capability.

Again, you could legitimately argue that that's a good thing in the global scheme of things. You could also argue that sabotaging the US air force is a good thing, on pacifist grounds. Unfortunately, this is where Snowden looks most like a traitor and least like a patriot, because US military officials tend to view the two situations as pretty much the same.

Re: NSA Coworker Remembers Edward Snowden: "A Genius Among Geniuses"

#50

Post by jeswin »

lukev wrote: post #34
Theodores wrote: post #6

Snowden differs from many of the whistleblower ilk in that there is nothing to dislike about his character (yet). The media have not dished any dirt, none of his friends/family/ex-lovers have came forward with anything untoward about him and he hasn't shown any signs of being deluded. Even if you try your hardest to 'believe', a lot of whistleblowers have been deluded one way or another. They can be overly indoctrina…

I think the fact that he leaked a lot of details about NSA surveillance of foreign governments diminishes his moral high ground. That is the stated mission of the NSA and while the details are highly classified, everyone knows that they're doing it and agrees it should be done as a matter of policy. Embedding himself in the NSA specifically to find the details regarding these activities and release them looks more li…

I'm all for whistleblowing on how the NSA is abusing its powers to spy on US citizens, and I think it's extremely important that he did so. I really wish he'd constrained himself to that.

I can't believe you're saying this. Is your judgement so clouded by patriotism that you somehow think other people have no right to their privacy? Let me explain the consequences of what you are suggesting here, apart from the obvious loss of goodwill across the world. Countries will feel free to barricade "their internet" and control communications. There will be lesser transparency, more firewalls and more detentions. Oppressive regimes will love this, and your allies will be left confused.

In times of peace, your allegiance should be towards ideals. Like democracy, privacy and free speech.

(edit: take an upvote anyway, you are entitled to your view.)

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