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If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

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Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#131

Post by zzzeek »

bluedino wrote: post #81
sethbannon wrote: post #12

The way America is conducting the war on terror is both self-defeating and morally repugnant.

It's very easy to not agree with the way the US government handles these sort of things, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing this for shits and giggles. It might seem nationalistic to some but it reminds me of a quote from "A Few Good Men" - Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I h…

you understand that Nicholson's character in that movie was intended to illustrate the hubris and dysfunction of militarism, right? Sorkin would be amazed (actually, probably not) to see that speech being used as an actual argument...the intention was the opposite.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#132

Post by wcummings »

pekk wrote: post #129
wcummings wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When we declare war on Yemen you'll be right. This is more akin to the bombings in Cambodia.

The use of manned bombers has occurred in "police actions" over and over

Yeah, it worked so well subduing MOVE! [1]

But in all seriousness, this isn't police action, its a foreign power.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOVE#1985_bombing

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#133

Post by rayiner »

> Does anyone believe that, if not for our lethal drone program, the United States would've sent the Air Force or ground troops to fire on this wedding party?

The premise of the article is non-sensical. If we didn't have drones, would the airforce be bombing targets in Yemen? Undoubtedly.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#134

Post by officemonkey »

mattgibson wrote: post #15
josefresco wrote: post #3

Weddings and funerals are actually targeted specifically because those events are two that even highly sought-after targets attend despite the dangers. Also, the subsequent funerals for those killed at the targeted wedding would then be targeted as well. You can either agree or disagree, but if you feel the target is accurate based on your intelligence the venue doesn't really matter IMHO. Civilians will be killed no…

If Bin Laden had been attending a wedding, then ground troops would have been sent in, who would have made sure they killed him and left unarmed civilians alone. We know this, because that's what actually happened when they found him. The question is why is this not being done in the same way in other cases, given that random killings of civilians are perhaps the best terrorist recruitment tool ever devised.

Because a Seal team is worth the risk of capturing bin Laden. A Seal team is not worth the risk of raiding some wedding.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#135

Post by mikeash »

dalore wrote: post #120
frogpelt wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me guess, you think there's a cure for cancer but the doctors are withholding it and Exxon Mobil bought the patent for a combustion engine that would achieve 100+ mpg. Any industry that is built on addressing problems that people naturally have is going to generate lots of revenue. It has been proven that people naturally fight with each other. People fight over race, religion, sports, politics, and territory. Na…

Let me guess, you said something similar to all the people that said the NSA were tracking everyone.

They laughed at Einstein[0] but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

The truth of one conspiracy cannot be used as evidence for the truth of others. It simply doesn't make sense.

[0] They didn't really laugh at Einstein, but you get the idea.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#136

Post by walshemj »

ck2 wrote: post #60

I think it is time for a world-wide ban on armed drones, period. Just like we have international treaties for other horrible things like mustard gas. Do all the reconnaissance you can get away with. But I don't want a tired, overworked, morally disconnected 20-something sitting in a trailer somewhere in the US, pulling a trigger to kill unquantifiable targets anywhere in the world. Or any other country doing it to an…

As opposed to a wired fighter jock inbound in a fast mover who has only one pass before he bingo's and might have .5 seconds to decide if he should abort or not - having less pressure will result in better decisions.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#137

Post by mistercow »

jackgavigan wrote: post #124
lmm wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Military pilots take orders; COs tell them how high to jump, and that's what they do. Either they follow orders or they are relieved of duty (and possibly face court martial). Even so, and despite all the training, some do refuse orders. They're also at least theoretically obliged to refuse illegal orders (i.e. war crimes), at least in my country.

Different countries have different definitions of what constitutes a war crime, depending on what international treaties they are parties to. Bombing wedding parties would come under what is often referred to as the Principle of Proportionality, as laid out in Article 51 of Protocol 1 to the Geneva Conventions and Article 8 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. The United States is not a party to e…

Since when is the US not a party to the Geneva Conventions?

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#138

Post by pekk »

zacinbusiness wrote: post #104
zacinbusiness wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the message is "This is how much we treat innocent civilians who have done nothing wrong, so stop to think about how we treat people that we actually dislike." It's nothing more than a form of terrorism, primarily against the American people.

@Waxjar - I'm saying that these drone strikes are not accidental. That they did not kill innocent people by accident. And that the point of the U.S. drone fleet has got nothing to do with stopping terrorists and that, in fact, the very existence of the U.S. drone fleet is itself an act of terror because it exists for no real purpose other than to frighten people who make the U.S. government angry.

Doesn't this definition make the existence of any military deterrent "an act of terror"?

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#139

Post by mikeash »

bluedino wrote: post #81
sethbannon wrote: post #12

The way America is conducting the war on terror is both self-defeating and morally repugnant.

It's very easy to not agree with the way the US government handles these sort of things, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing this for shits and giggles. It might seem nationalistic to some but it reminds me of a quote from "A Few Good Men" - Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I h…

"but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing this for shits and giggles."

Wait, I do? Did they pass a law or something?

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#140

Post by csmuk »

frogpelt wrote: post #110
rdtsc wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is profitable. If terrorists disappeared tomorrow. Let's say we use our surgical strike weapons to target every cell every member, and in one hour they are gone. What would happen? Billions of dollars disappear from the pockets of everyone in the chain. Military contractors, drone maintenance, promotions, bonuses, career advancements, no more completed missions, medals, no job to go to. So the direct financial and…

Let me guess, you think there's a cure for cancer but the doctors are withholding it and Exxon Mobil bought the patent for a combustion engine that would achieve 100+ mpg. Any industry that is built on addressing problems that people naturally have is going to generate lots of revenue. It has been proven that people naturally fight with each other. People fight over race, religion, sports, politics, and territory. Na…

I worked for defence companies in the past. There are no morals and ethics. Just profit and plunder. The parent of your post is spot on.
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