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If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

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Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#111

Post by JOfferijns »

[deleted] wrote: post #82
ck2 wrote: post #60

I think it is time for a world-wide ban on armed drones, period. Just like we have international treaties for other horrible things like mustard gas. Do all the reconnaissance you can get away with. But I don't want a tired, overworked, morally disconnected 20-something sitting in a trailer somewhere in the US, pulling a trigger to kill unquantifiable targets anywhere in the world. Or any other country doing it to an…

[deleted]

This is simply not true, the US has both signed and ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention [1], though it still has to destroy some of their stockpile [2].

[1] http://www.opcw.org/about-opcw/member-states/

[2] http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/11/us/u-s-chemical-weapons/

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#112

Post by weland »

bluedino wrote: post #81
sethbannon wrote: post #12

The way America is conducting the war on terror is both self-defeating and morally repugnant.

It's very easy to not agree with the way the US government handles these sort of things, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing this for shits and giggles. It might seem nationalistic to some but it reminds me of a quote from "A Few Good Men" - Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I h…

It's very easy to put it in terms of "Yeah, some civilian deaths are a necessary evil which we burden our conscience with. But we do it because we have to protect our civilians", but I think it's intellectually lazy.

Because the next question that should inevitably spring up is ok, ok, but why the fuck would someone in Yemen want to kill US citizens?

Once you start answering that question, the question of morality in drone strikes becomes a lot more difficult to answer.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#113

Post by wil421 »

iaskwhy wrote: post #41
wil421 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what I find the most troubling. I used to think the US was trying to still spread democracy worldwide but apparently internally they feel if you are foreign that means there arent any laws as to what we can and cant do.

That's something important for you to realise. The next step is to understand that the US government didn't change much lately meaning that idea you had in your mind was never true since at least the end of the second world war. Then you get to wonder how you got to believe that in the first place.

You're right maybe it was a misunderstanding and maybe its misinformation but I couldve recalled Bush saying something along these lines about Iraq. I also believe some of my grade school teachers may have put these ideas in our head. I dont not fault them for it they were just trying to paint a rosy picture of America abroad.

Just so you anyone knows, not all americans feel the same as our govt. does.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#114

Post by PavlovsCat »

Killah911 wrote: post #28
forktheif wrote: post #10

It continues to baffle me why the fact they're drones matter in the slightest. They're not autonomous, they're flown by pilots who just happen to not be sitting in the aircraft they're flying. Manned aircraft have killed huge groups of innocent civilians more than once, but apparently that's fine because the pilot was sitting in the aircraft.

It matters because it changes the fundamental nature of combat. If a pilot is in the plane you're risking an American life, not to mention a very expensive piece of equipment with numerous safety features etc. Now take away the risk to American life and lower the cost of the attack significantly, and viola, you've got a much itchier trigger finger now. If you've played MW3, which would you rather do, use the drone to…

> At the time, I had friends deployed and in my head, I thought that it's better we have UAVs than my friends coming home in bodybags...

But that's the thing: in my mind more human soldiers means less potential for outright slaughtering of civilians. So more drones might end up raising the body count. in the long run; not for US soldiers, but for people you'd miss just as much if you'd happen to be born as their friends.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#115

Post by kitsune_ »

mikeash wrote: post #103
ck2 wrote: post #60

I think it is time for a world-wide ban on armed drones, period. Just like we have international treaties for other horrible things like mustard gas. Do all the reconnaissance you can get away with. But I don't want a tired, overworked, morally disconnected 20-something sitting in a trailer somewhere in the US, pulling a trigger to kill unquantifiable targets anywhere in the world. Or any other country doing it to an…

I don't really understand the outrage over drones specifically. This constant bombing of foreign countries is terrible, but I don't understand why the "drones" part of it is also considered bad. Why is a tired, overworked, morally disconnected 20-something sitting in a trailer somewhere in the US worse than a tired, overworked, morally disconnected 20-something sitting in a cockpit of an F-16?

As mentioned in other comments in this thread:

From a political point of view, drones are much more attractive than traditional methods. You won't see the corpses of dead Americans being dragged through Mogadishu with drones. You won't see captured pilots being paraded in front of a camera with drones.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#116

Post by rokhayakebe »

senthilnayagam wrote: post #71

friends and family of the innocent killed won't be friendly with americans ever

You can bet that someone in that group is already making plans for revenge, 10 years from now, when everyone has completely forgotten this incident ever happened.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#117

Post by mathattack »

forktheif wrote: post #10

It continues to baffle me why the fact they're drones matter in the slightest. They're not autonomous, they're flown by pilots who just happen to not be sitting in the aircraft they're flying. Manned aircraft have killed huge groups of innocent civilians more than once, but apparently that's fine because the pilot was sitting in the aircraft.

I think this is the point. Because we're not putting our own lives at risk, we're actually getting more callous about it. This seems paradoxical, but I believe it's true.

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#119

Post by simonbarker87 »

pavlov wrote: post #109
bluedino wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very easy to not agree with the way the US government handles these sort of things, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing this for shits and giggles. It might seem nationalistic to some but it reminds me of a quote from "A Few Good Men" - Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I h…

It's very easy to not agree with the way the North Korean government handles many things, but you have to give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not doing it for shits and giggles. After all, they have been at war for over 60 years now. It must be obvious to any patriotic Korean that the danger posed by American imperialists who still occupy the southern half of the country is ever-present and growing. Some…

Bravo!

Re: If a Drone Strike Hit an American Wedding We'd Ground Our Fleet

#120

Post by dalore »

frogpelt wrote: post #110
rdtsc wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is profitable. If terrorists disappeared tomorrow. Let's say we use our surgical strike weapons to target every cell every member, and in one hour they are gone. What would happen? Billions of dollars disappear from the pockets of everyone in the chain. Military contractors, drone maintenance, promotions, bonuses, career advancements, no more completed missions, medals, no job to go to. So the direct financial and…

Let me guess, you think there's a cure for cancer but the doctors are withholding it and Exxon Mobil bought the patent for a combustion engine that would achieve 100+ mpg. Any industry that is built on addressing problems that people naturally have is going to generate lots of revenue. It has been proven that people naturally fight with each other. People fight over race, religion, sports, politics, and territory. Na…

Let me guess, you said something similar to all the people that said the NSA were tracking everyone.
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