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The NSA: An Inside View

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Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#261

Post by secthrowaway »

SwellJoe wrote: post #142

This is why I don't believe the president's assertion about the employees of the NSA being innocent of wrongdoing or anyone's assertion of them being "good guys". This is apologia for crimes against the world and the American people. This is saying, "If you don't have anything to hide, you have nothing to worry about." This is demonstrably filled with lies and misrepresentations, whether intentional or through ignora…

> I'm getting close to believing that starting any online service in the United States is unethical, because of what it will do to its users.

Let me know what country you can start an online service in that doesn't also have a foreign intelligence agency if that's your ethical standard.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#262

Post by coldpie »

rst wrote: post #70
jonknee wrote: post #37

Interesting to get a look at what it's like to be inside the bubble. It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others. > I didn't test it, but I'm sure there was automated analysis that prevented or flagged use of US selectors. The mental leap here is subtle, but substantial. Since I have been told I can't use US selectors , I a…

What's particularly interesting is that some of the recent disclosures don't seem to be visible inside the bubble. Take this assertion, for instance: "The NSA copy of my emails won't be viewed by police or FBI investigating me about marijuana use, for instance. Law enforcement might get a search warrant and retrieve a copy from Google, but not from the NSA." In fact, it's been known for months that the DEA receives i…

Yes, this stood out at me too. As soon as I read that statement, I knew the author was either lying or underinformed. Thanks for providing the article.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#263

Post by [deleted] »

PeterisP wrote: post #252
jessaustin wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah well back then we had actual opponents. North Korea are crackpots, and some fundamentalists prefer living with goats in caves to comfortable air travel, but never in a million years will those cranks be the threat that the Axis or even the Soviets were.

Do you believe that China isn't a worthy enough competitor in electronic espionage? Or the occasionally conflicting interests with Russia and other countries? The main job of NSA isn't to support short-term military operations in whatever location they're fighting today, they have to ensure that if they suddenly need to focus on country X, then they already have years/decades worth of collected intelligence.

[deleted]

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#264

Post by focher »

The worst thing about such pro-spying articles is that they are policy arguments, when the real issue is one of Constitutional rights. I don't really care what policies individuals or groups support. That's the whole point of a Constitution. It protects liberties from even majority rule taking them away. What part of the Fourth Amendment is unclear? Don't like it? Then pass a new goddamn amendment.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#265

Post by dreamfactory »

bazillion wrote: post #245

I spent four years in (2 years longer than the OP), but worked on a substantially broader swath of intelligence areas and in much more policy-oriented positions, and I can tell you that the vitriol that's been displayed on HackerNews is incredibly tiresome to see, because you are all missing a very key point about how the NSA conducts business (which I've pointed out in previous posts). The key point is this: the NSA…

So 'only following orders' is the defense here? And these orders (e.g. hacking Google's SSL endpoints, big data mining) originate from politicians? (And to call scrutiny 'tiresome' when the director baldly lies to congress frankly just compounds the general air of unchecked arrogance.)

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#266

Post by drharris »

> Email that isn’t related to intelligence is rarely viewed, and it’s even less often viewed if it’s from a US citizen

I stopped here. The words "rarely" and "less often" should both be "never". If the answer is not never, congratulations, you just helped ruin the world. Engineers and developers should be using our powers to help the world, not help corrupt governments spy on their own citizens. I only wish there were a way to strip credentials from technical people who aid an enemy so they can never work in this field again.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#267

Post by ANH »

rdtsc wrote: post #47
jonknee wrote: post #37

Interesting to get a look at what it's like to be inside the bubble. It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others. > I didn't test it, but I'm sure there was automated analysis that prevented or flagged use of US selectors. The mental leap here is subtle, but substantial. Since I have been told I can't use US selectors , I a…

> It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others. I've talked to this before but this denial and self delusion is an important defense mechanism. Sometimes people write blogs and get into apologetic because they feel an internal dull pain of an inconsistency. "Hmm it looks we NSA did all these pretty bad things. I worked for t…

I'd rather intel analysts have some cognitive dissonance than have absolute certainty they are always justified in their actions.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#268

Post by ANH »

Peaker wrote: post #190
mpyne wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The mental leap here is subtle, but substantial. Since I have been told I can't use US selectors , I assume the system enforces this. As such, US citizens have nothing to worry about. For the life of me I cannot figure out why people refuse to accept the concept of training and policy as being relevant to proper civil liberties safeguards in addition to technical ones. Imagine applying that idea to any other field,…

> Imagine applying that idea to any other field, and keep in mind the unintended consequences The difference from other fields, is that the consequences in other fields are public. If a soldier shoots someone, that someone is dead and can prompt an investigation. If someone in the NSA abuses his powers, it is very likely that nobody will ever know. Or be able to know. No investigation will be triggered, and even if o…

>If someone in the NSA abuses his powers, it is very likely that nobody will ever know.

You mean, besides his family, friends, and loved ones when he loses his job and potentially ends up in prison. You're underestimating the amount of training and internal oversight that occurs.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#270

Post by wmt »

> I had to make sure that my searches didn't use US selectors, such as a US phone number or IP address.

i.e. "we aggressively spy on all U.S. citizens, but we try really hard not to look at that data."

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