Live data from Hacker News

Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

clientcide.com

41–50 of 108 posts

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#41
post #16

I would tell anyone getting into web development right now that if you want to be in high demand, become a JS wizard. And of course, the front-end is part of the package unless you box yourself into Node. To get to the level the author is talking about is quite daunting. I feel that JS is sort of a second class citizen to most back-end developers. Web projects which are touched by an HTML / CSS developer, a designer…

> I feel that JS is sort of a second class citizen to most back-end developers.

I'm not what one might consider a back-end developer (or a web developer at all, for that matter), but the overgrowth of web tools in the web 2.0 aftermath has made web tools somewhat hard to ignore as of late, so I had to sporadically develop what can be considered back-end code. Even front-end, which I have done grudgingly.

To me, JS -- and in fact the whole web environment -- is a second-class citizen. I come from a vastly different background (embedded and systems programming), and the fact that people manage to write anything useful with today's web technologies is astounding. I honestly admire the craftiness of web developers, although I have very few good words to say about pretty much anything else that comes out of their hands.

I cannot help seeing them as second-class citizens because:

1. They are simply tools made for different purpose. HTML is there to annotate the structure of some content, CSS is to annotate its appearance, JS is for some limited interaction. What people managed to build with these limited tools, compared to the crap we were writing the last time when I seriously touched web programming (let's just say that PHP wasn't yet popular when that happened), is astounding, but I cannot help wondering if the web wouldn't be a lot better if people had actually stopped to think about better tools for a moment. Every time I see yet another awesome demonstration of a JS game, my initial enthusiasm is chased away by the realization that thirty years later, people are still enthusiastic about stuff you could make on an Amiga, were it not for the gazillion cycles wasted between the hundreds of abstraction layers involved in painting a pixel and for the latency involved with pretty much every I/O operation.

2. It's shaggy. Dear God, it's shaggy, full of barely-documented hacks. If you want your webpage to have a drop-down menu, there's a thousand something.js packages that help you do that, but all of them have their own quirks, their own issues with styling, their own little manner of use and so on. It reminds me of writing X11 applications using nothing but Xlib, when everyone was using their own menu widget that worked in a slightly different manner from every other application. The Unix desktop was not too fun to use back then, and the fact that people not only consider that kind of behaviour to be OK now, but actually want it, is beyond comprehension to me. It doesn't help that a large portion of the community seems to struggle with even the most basic programming concepts, which makes reading source code or documentation a very unpleasant experience.

3. The tooling is terrible (but this one is becomming less and less of a grievance).

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#42
post #21

What if I am a JavaScript wizard who is also a backend wizard, and I know a lot about CSS/HTML and browser quirks, but I couldn't design my way out of a wet and ripped paper bag? Can I be awesome too? Or am I designated to the waste bin? Because that would suck. I don't like the waste bin. It smells funny.

Except if it is http://www.jsbin.com/ :)

But I feel exactly like you.

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#43
post #17

Here's a question: for a decent frontend developer who's still far away from the "master" level he describes here, is it worth chasing mastery or might it be better to branch out to other skills, like management? I think I'm a solid frontend developer, but I'm a few years professional experience away from the level he describes here. I know my way around HTML, CSS and the various browser quirks - though I'm still lea…

  > I'm wondering if, rather than transform yourself into a 
  > magical-unicorn designer/hacker - it might be better to 
  > get solid at development, solid at design, but aim to 
  > only get good enough that you can manage people who are 
  > better at you in those areas?
Depends on your definition of "better". The market clearly treats the three skills (dev, design, management) as separate things, so really you don't even need to be "solid" in more than one if you define "better" as "above average salary". If you define "better" as "can move the project forward without finding another person to help", then becoming a "superhero" is what you should do.

Note that "we're still figuring out what this product is" stage startups really hope to find these "superhero" types, as they can litterally breathe life into a product by themselves. Larger companies can't depend on hiring people with all skill sets, as they're too rare.

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#44
post #2

Reading this reminded me of a post by Yossi Kreinin, the author of the C++ FQA ( http://www.yosefk.com/blog/low-level-is-easy.html ). It's a good read and it will show you the whole thing from a different perspective.

Brilliant text, this line really resonates with me: "Every moron can pick up CSS and PHP; apparently, every moron did pick them up."

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#45
post #2

Reading this reminded me of a post by Yossi Kreinin, the author of the C++ FQA ( http://www.yosefk.com/blog/low-level-is-easy.html ). It's a good read and it will show you the whole thing from a different perspective.

Great read, thanks for sharing!

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#47
I just realized the article was from 2010. Good thing much of it still applies.

I think what the recruiter meant when he said "those people don't exist" was really "those people aren't available to you." In a highly competitive job market, these "unicorns" can get any job they want, or even stay independent, and both make more money and have a higher quality of life than most startups could provide. Recruiters know this as they are the ones trying to locate these people, but hiring managers might not have this perspective.

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#48
post #35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alas, my design skills stretch no further than the ability to vet designs created by others and giving decent suggestions. I think this makes me more of a pony with an ice cream cone duct taped to its forehead.

Haha! In seriousness, some tips that I find help: * Learn & use Bootstrap. A manager actually told me to use Bootstrap instead of a custom webapp design created by his in-house designer once. The defaults are fine for a surprisingly wide range of projects. * Learn some design basics, like the rule of thirds, typography and picking palettes from colour wheels. * Don't be afraid to copy other people's designs. Converse…

I can do all that, so what am I?

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#49
post #37
post #20

One thing I have learned in my years of experience... Stay away from any job posting that asks for ninjas, rock stars or bad asses.

I dont understand those job ads. What kind of person honestly describes themselves as such? Maybe I am just too jaded, but god damn, note to self: kill myself if I ever use one of those titles.

The funny thing is, most of the people extolling the virtues of JavaScript here and in the comments on the article are referring to themselves as gurus/ninjas/rockstars/badasses/demigods with worrying frequency.

Roles where demand exceeds supply often start receiving a lot of hype and faux-respect in a effort to attract people to bridge the gap. As soon as the gap is bridged adequately, people will go back to seeing JavaScript "ninjas" as the code-twiddlers they really are. It's similar to how soldiers are patriots/defenders/heroes when someone is required to dive on a grenade, but "grunts" otherwise.

The sad thing is, people let it go to their heads. Another sad thing is how easily these JavaScript developer types are swayed compared to other professions. I mean, who really takes pride in being called a "ninja", besides 12 year old boys?

Re: Why It’s a Good Idea to Be a JavaScript Developer, and What it Takes to Be One

#50
Being a front-end web dev sucks. You need to know browser quirks, know about design, know UX, know JS in depth, jquery of course and even backbone and/or angular are now expected (with any other framework being a plus). And the back-end guys learn mostly one language and stack, e.g. .NET and maybe SQL (if there isn't already someone dedicated as a DB guy). Then they still wonder why you are bitching about vertical centring, "isn't that just stupid CSS, here I'll help you, type in vertical-align:middle." The worst part is when you are working with a graphical designer (who knows nothing about the web) and sends you impossible designs, and a client who bitches if any pixel on that magnificent masterpiece is missing in IE6/7/8, because that's the browser he is using on his old PC, when his iPad is charging.
Post reply on HN