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The NSA: An Inside View

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Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#41

Post by joe_the_user »

Zigurd wrote: post #4

Is this the best defense of the actions of NSA employees publicly available? He spends a lot of time denying pervasive surveillance puts us in a panopticon where the FBI and other LEAs can observe everything we do. And never mentions parallel construction once. He tries to justify a Cold War sized, and then some, security state by invoking North Korea. This is a big bowl of very weak sauce. The director's standard of…

I agree this is a very weak justification.

But it plausibly is just what a purports to be - a portrait of the mentality of a rank and file NSA employee (I don't see any evidence that he's even "mid-ranking" if "mid" means middle management). That mentality seems to be a fusion of "surveillance doesn't matter if you have nothing to hide" and "America is under siege".

The thing is, it is good that the NSA has a lot of sincere employees are not now simply there for the power. It seems like this means instances of surveillance abuse are only period rather than constant. This puts them above the level of local police, who tend to have a fair of "ex-high school bullies and wanna be bullies". Yes, that's good but given the NSA's unchecked power, if an "institutional drift" towards the cynical use of power began in earnest, there isn't much people could do legally to stop that. And that is very bad.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#43

Post by Zigurd »

joe_the_user wrote: post #41
Zigurd wrote: post #4

Is this the best defense of the actions of NSA employees publicly available? He spends a lot of time denying pervasive surveillance puts us in a panopticon where the FBI and other LEAs can observe everything we do. And never mentions parallel construction once. He tries to justify a Cold War sized, and then some, security state by invoking North Korea. This is a big bowl of very weak sauce. The director's standard of…

I agree this is a very weak justification. But it plausibly is just what a purports to be - a portrait of the mentality of a rank and file NSA employee (I don't see any evidence that he's even "mid-ranking" if "mid" means middle management). That mentality seems to be a fusion of "surveillance doesn't matter if you have nothing to hide" and "America is under siege". The thing is, it is good that the NSA has a lot of…

Be careful what you wish for. The True Believers are the most dangerous. Cynics are more connected to reality.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#44

Post by princeverma »

I seriously don't understand if OP has written this article in satirical sense, because to me there is no logic there.

I am a foreign national, I and my company uses services provided by a US company (email etc.), and this gives right to you guys to collect and ready my emails?

tldr; of your article is this: "Oh ! he is a foreigner, fuck him. What he can do? ? He can't vote to get us out of power. So, it's ok and about the persons who can vote to get us out, they can't do anything because we know every little dirty secret of them. Oh ! one more thing, we are so good we promise we don't look at these dirty secrets. Although cases where a employee uses this 'secure' system for personal use, ya that do happen. Trust Us."

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#45

Post by jkrems »

javert wrote: post #28
te_chris wrote: post #8

Thank you so much, kind American intelligence guy, for having the grace to not look at USA citizens emails, all the while not even mentioning foreigners, who should apparently just lie down and take it.

As a US citizen, I assume foreign countries (esp. China) spy on me. But I don't go around bitching about that. Why? Because the US will protect me. China cannot hurt me. On the other hand, when the US spies on me, I am much more threatened, because nobody can protect me from the US. If the US turns against me (for instance, for supporting the Tea Party), declaring me part of a "violent organization", I'm in real trou…

I think you are missing a point: US (cloud) companies do business with for example European companies/customers. The leaks suggest that all data a non-US customer stores with them is fair game for being snooped by NSA etc. without any judge or due process. This turns "complain about your own country spying on you!" into "Don't do business with an American company if you care for legal protection/are not stupid". But please continue to pretend that economy is confined by national borders.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#46

Post by revelation »

jonknee wrote: post #37

Interesting to get a look at what it's like to be inside the bubble. It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others. > I didn't test it, but I'm sure there was automated analysis that prevented or flagged use of US selectors. The mental leap here is subtle, but substantial. Since I have been told I can't use US selectors , I a…

Well, following his explanations, you can fail the polygraph and just do it again. The cost of failure is zero, so really just keep trying.

(I personally loved the bizarre mix between cyber war, nukes and North Korea. He seems to have the mindset of a paranoid Stalin, always wary of others when he's the one terrorizing.)

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#47

Post by rdtsc »

jonknee wrote: post #37

Interesting to get a look at what it's like to be inside the bubble. It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others. > I didn't test it, but I'm sure there was automated analysis that prevented or flagged use of US selectors. The mental leap here is subtle, but substantial. Since I have been told I can't use US selectors , I a…

> It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others.

I've talked to this before but this denial and self delusion is an important defense mechanism. Sometimes people write blogs and get into apologetic because they feel an internal dull pain of an inconsistency. "Hmm it looks we NSA did all these pretty bad things. I worked for them NSA. Surely I couldn't have worked for the bad guys." and then .

That cognitive dissonance, I believe, is pretty powerful. A lot of dark secrets and past transgressions can be filtered so well throw it.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#48

Post by lorendsr »

muglug wrote: post #5

Thanks for sharing your POV. Do you think Snowdon's revelations had any beneficial impact, or is your view of them entirely negative?

I think it was important for the citizens to know what powers they have given the NSA. They did not have an accurate sense of that before Snowden. But he released a lot more than that, much of which will hurt the NSA's capabilities.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#49

Post by gaius »

jonknee wrote: post #37

Interesting to get a look at what it's like to be inside the bubble. It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others. > I didn't test it, but I'm sure there was automated analysis that prevented or flagged use of US selectors. The mental leap here is subtle, but substantial. Since I have been told I can't use US selectors , I a…

"Are we the bad guys?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpZ8EkK3eWY <---- that's inside the bubble

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#50

Post by aaron695 »

It reminds me of that sketch of the nazis where they realise they are on the baddies side, except op isn't there yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEle_DLDg9Y

People need to realise it's more "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

And less terrorists and other cliches.

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