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The NSA: An Inside View

lorensr.me

31–40 of 323 posts

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#31
> Even if you are not a citizen of the Five Eyes, you shouldn't be worried about your data being viewed unless you're involved with a group of interest, such as a foreign government or violent organization.

Is the US Tea Party considered a "violent organization"? (It's not, but that's a separate issue.) If not, can you guarantee that it won't be labeled as such under some future administration? The IRS is already targeting the Tea Party, so we have reason to believe that certain US political actors are not interested in abiding by objective laws.

If not, why do you defend the NSA?

Though I'm a US citizen, I'm sure one of the other Five Eyes countries can be employed to spy on me.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#32
"Even if you are not a citizen of the Five Eyes, you shouldn't be worried about your data being viewed unless you're involved with a group of interest, such as a foreign government or violent organization."

Huh, so:

- My best friend's dad was a spy in the CIA

- During the 70s and 80s my dad worked with Russian scientists (also ones from Poland and other Communist Bloc countries). Ecology stuff, mostly.

- I've been in "interesting" circles in the crypto arena, and know people who are almost certainly under surveillance.

So, how likely is it that my email is read, that my phone records are looked at, and so on? What are the chances that I'll have trouble the next time I cross a border or try to board a plane? One percent? Fifty percent?

Am I going to get my Name on a List because I've said that we need to stop allowing the NSA to build more data centers? That I think that Dianne Feinstein needs to be removed from office?

I don't do anything that interesting and my life is quite frankly pretty boring; my personal concern about any damage from someone looking at my emails to Mom is small. But I'd still like the government to get a lot smaller in this area because I'm afraid of what things will look like ten years from now, when data mining the innocuous stuff you did fifteen years earlier gets you Special Treatment at those DUI stops.

The "developed capacity equals intent" bullshit works both ways.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#33
post #8

Thank you so much, kind American intelligence guy, for having the grace to not look at USA citizens emails, all the while not even mentioning foreigners, who should apparently just lie down and take it.

This is the point of an intelligence agency, no?

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#34
The gist is that you should not value your privacy if you have nothing to hide.

This principle is absolutely forbidden to be reversed, the secret workings of government agencies are protected by the highest secrecy.

What do they have to hide?

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#35
post #4

Is this the best defense of the actions of NSA employees publicly available? He spends a lot of time denying pervasive surveillance puts us in a panopticon where the FBI and other LEAs can observe everything we do. And never mentions parallel construction once. He tries to justify a Cold War sized, and then some, security state by invoking North Korea. This is a big bowl of very weak sauce. The director's standard of…

On one hand, I completely buy his assertions about China's pervasive hacking attempts/successes and that the NSA is our best tool for stopping them. On the other hand, you're right on the money about parallel construction. In my book, that's the one thing that sent the NSA "over the line." It's good to hear that many NSA employees take the police/military distinction seriously, but we know for a fact that some higher…

Thanks for letting me know about parallel construction - I hadn't heard of it.

You're right, abuses probably have happened more often than those caught.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#36
post #13

Translation: Trust us, we are the good guys. This blog post does nothing to answer the fundamental questions that the Snowden leaks have raised. This man basically argues that, with few exceptions, everyone that works for the NSA is a true American and a patriot who only has your interests at heart and what is a little spying amongst friends anyway. Follow that with some scary hints about cyber war with nuclear respo…

Actually, it's a man, but otherwise you're right.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#37
Interesting to get a look at what it's like to be inside the bubble. It's compartmentalized enough that the individual actors can justify their actions by the assumed competence and benevolence of the others.

> I didn't test it, but I'm sure there was automated analysis that prevented or flagged use of US selectors.

The mental leap here is subtle, but substantial. Since I have been told I can't use US selectors , I assume the system enforces this. As such, US citizens have nothing to worry about. However, in the immediately previous paragraph, he noted:

> one employee spied on a spouse

So much for automated analysis, besides not being able to filter out US citizens' data it can't even filter out an employee's direct family. But there's no need to worry citizen, the NSA has a very high-quality workforce.

In the NY Times this morning was a piece noting that the government has concluded they don't know what files Snowden took with him (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/us/officials-say-us-may-ne...). The most technologically advanced intelligence agency in the history of the world and they have no idea what files were electronically taken by one of their own. One of their own who passed the background check by the way--I don't know why the OP is so enamored with the polygraph.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#38
> I am an American patriot.

The author may believe he or she’s a patriot. I disagree. I don’t believe someone who acts to subvert the Bill of Rights which states

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

is even remotely close to being a patriot.

> Many are concerned about the NSA listening to their phone calls and reading their email messages. I believe that most should not be very concerned because most are not sending email to intelligence targets.

> Email that isn’t related to intelligence is rarely viewed, and it’s even less often viewed if it’s from a US citizen.

“Rarely” is pretty meaningless. The NSA has repeatedly tried to compare the number looked at with the number of intercepts. Of course they’re only looking at a tiny percentage. But if I were to only steal one-in-a-billion dollars in the US or only kill one-in-a-million people, I’d still be doing something immoral.

> Every Agency employee goes through orientation, in which we are taught about the federal laws that govern NSA/US Cyber Command: Title 10 and Title 50.

Yet evidence seems to show that they've willfully found ways to interpret the laws in ways that the authors of the laws think is illegal.

> We all know that it's illegal to look at a US citizen's data without a court order.

But the NSA has a special non-adversarial court that rubber-stamps whatever it wants. (And it still happened)

> I use the term "look" deliberately: the Agency makes the distinction that looking at data is surveillance, while gathering it from locations outside the US is not. We gathered everything, and only looked at a tiny percentage of it.

The problem is that the 4th Ammendment makes no such distinction. They were wrong in collecting it in the first place.

> I am okay with this distinction both because I don't mind if my emails are copied to an Agency database and likely never read and because from a technical standpoint it would seriously impair our ability to spy if we couldn't gather everything.*

He may not mind, but many other people do. I respectfully ask that he, Mr. Clapper, and Gen Alexander give us all their data in case we later do find what they were doing was illegal.

> The Agency is an intelligence organization, not a law enforcement agency.

> The NSA copy of my emails won't be viewed by police or FBI investigating me about marijuana use, for instance.

And yet, per Reuters

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE...

   “A secretive U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration unit is funneling information from intelligence intercepts, wiretaps, informants and a massive database of telephone records to authorities across the nation to help them launch criminal investigations of Americans.
   “Although these cases rarely involve national security issues, documents reviewed by Reuters show that law enforcement agents have been directed to conceal how such investigations truly begin - not only from defense lawyers but also sometimes from prosecutors and judges.”
> The NSA copy of my emails will only be viewed if the Agency can convince a judge that I might be a foreign agent. And the judges aren't pushovers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intellige...

During the 25 years from 1979 to 2004, 18,742 warrants were granted, while just four were rejected. Fewer than 200 requests had to be modified before being accepted, almost all of them in 2003 and 2004. The four rejected requests were all from 2003, and all four were partially granted after being submitted for reconsideration by the government. Of the requests that had to be modified, few if any were before the year 2000. During the next eight years, from 2004 to 2012, there were over 15,100 additional warrants granted, with an additional seven being rejected. In all, over the entire 33-year period, the FISA court has granted 33,942 warrants, with only 11 denials – a rejection rate of 0.03 percent of the total requests.

> They won’t spent time on my private love letters.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57605051-38/nsa-offers-det...

> That security we had is gone. North Korea has nuclear weapons and is threatening to fire them at the US.

How does spying on Americans help?

> Reality should enter your cost-benefit analyses.

I totally agree.

> This essay was deemed UNCLASSIFIED and approved for public release by the NSA's office of Pre-Publication Review on 11/21/2013 (PP 14-0081).

Somehow, I have a feeling that opposing points of view wouldn’t find much an easy clearance.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#39
post #13

Translation: Trust us, we are the good guys. This blog post does nothing to answer the fundamental questions that the Snowden leaks have raised. This man basically argues that, with few exceptions, everyone that works for the NSA is a true American and a patriot who only has your interests at heart and what is a little spying amongst friends anyway. Follow that with some scary hints about cyber war with nuclear respo…

The author is a man.

Re: The NSA: An Inside View

#40
post #20

Well looking at the end it says that its declassified/published with the NSA's blessing. If an employee had a contrarian opinion to the NSA would it be declassified like this one? Its hard to read it and feel that it is balanced or even truthful.

I believe so.
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