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Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

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Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#111
post #109
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, if you saw a male blogger write that, you would think "asshole". There is simply is no way to boast about your wealth and popularity, regardless of gender or orientation, without coming across as obnoxious.

You might think "asshole", but there's a giant step from thinking "asshole", and maybe even writing a blog post or comment about it somewhere, to even a tiny fraction of the level of harassment she has been subjected to.

Agreed. What I do find terrible about this culture on its attitudes toward sexual misbehavior is that it's a guilt culture for men, but a shame culture for women. Guilt is feeling bad about something you did. Shame is when it's generalized to the person.

If a man does something stupid, he's told to feel bad about what he did. If a woman does something stupid sexually, she's told to feel bad about herself. That's wrong and it should change. The double standard is shitty.

I can't get on board with the Sex and the City crowd that glorifies horrible female behavior, but neither can I support the hideous double standard that exists now. The correct middle ground is not to glorify bad behavior and call it "feminist" (as the SatC people do) but for women to experience the same guilt culture (not the shame culture) that men do. It should be "that was dumb, don't do it again" (as it is for men) but not "you're a horrible person".

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#112
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't read that the same way you did. I don't think GP was using "culture" as an excuse for anyone's behaviour; rather I read it as a suggestion that maybe in addition to personal culpability, there are cultural problems in place which perpetuate/encourage/condone bad behaviour. Doesn't sound like horseshit to me, at least not in the obvious sense which you seem to suggest. (FWIW, I might also forego the "alpha/om…

If there's a cultural problem, it's the one that suggests that having a hard time finding a date when you're 17 (or 24) is a problem that implicates all of society and can be expected to motivate a hatred of women. The person we're talking about on this thread did nothing worse than write a blog about a topic that makes certain people feel uncomfortable. In return, she was the victim of a concerted and unrelenting ca…

I actually read quite a few posts on her blog. She wasn't just writing about sex. She was writing about people she was with, sometimes in intimate detail.

No one sane has any problem with sex columnists, who write about the topic in general. "[Identifiable person] has weird genitalia" is another.

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#113
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those feminists who hate Trans-people. They are the ultra-extreme feminists.

Such feminists exist?! Please tell me you're joking. That's even more horrifying than Alice Schwarzer...

> Such feminists exist?

Yes, the range of people with radically divergent, often incompatible, and sometimes nearly diametrically opposed views fighting for control of the word "feminism" is pretty broad.

You see the same thing with, say, "socialism". Or "Christianity". Or, really, lots of other things.

"Feminism" is sometimes somewhat more problematic than many of the rest because, for a variety of reasons, there hasn't been as much development of secondary terminology that is less contentious which helps discuss and identify the various competing factions clearly, so, when we try to discuss them, we end up having to say things like "Feminists who believe x, y, and z" and then half or more the discussion gets sidetracked into an argument of whether or not belief x, y, or z is necessary to, compatible with, or opposed to "true feminism" and whether, therefore, it is correct to use "feminist" to describe people with that view (or, OTOH, whether it is redundant to qualify "feminist" with reference to those beliefs.)

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#114
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lena Chen didn't deserve what happened to her, but she courted the attention in a way that a mature and psychologically sound woman wouldn't. She ran a blog called Sex and the Ivy. I'm sorry, but if you write a blog whose title says, "I'm in the most privileged 2% of the population, I have lots of sex", you're putting a target on yourself. Please don't be an asshole to people on HN.

I strongly disagree with the OP but if that is how they feel, they have a right to state it.

Yes, everybody has the right to be an asshole to people.

I fail to see the relevance to what I asked of him.

Re: Sex, lies and the Internet: The tale of Lena Chen

#115

Lena Chen and Kathy Sierra shouldn't be mentioned in the same article. Kathy Sierra was attacked for being female . She did nothing that would cause people to attack her, except for being a successful woman. It was disgusting, unprovoked, and utterly wrong. Lena Chen didn't deserve what happened to her, but she courted the attention in a way that a mature and psychologically sound woman wouldn't. She ran a blog calle…

> Lena Chen and Kathy Sierra shouldn't be mentioned in the same article.

I don't have a problem with them being mentioned together, although their cases are certainly different in substantial ways. While Chen courted attention, from what I can tell she did not specifically attempt to court controversy and profit from internet rage (though I could be wrong).

My problem is with bringing up Anita Sarkesiaan, who trolled lowest-common-denominator male videogamers on purpose to get publicity, sympathy and funding for her kickstarter project and has the audacity to claim in a TED(x) talk that it was all because she was a woman.

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