The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder • Hacker News Board

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#11

Post by modfodder » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 9:58 PM UTC

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #3

I don't know. I just don't know. I earned a perfect score on the SAT and was voted "Class Genius" in the yearbook, but barely graduated from high school. I was dismissed from university. I went to work for a machine learning company, where we (self included!) did some really neat stuff, including some heroic pre-sales-meeting coding that saved the day in a minor way. But I was fired six months in for low productivity…

I have a similar history to yours (except GenX not millenial). I've built a decent career for myself, but have always struggled with SAD and bipolar symptoms. When I feel good I'm sure it's something I can control, but as soon as it sneaks up, my life goes into self-destruction mode. I always feel bad about complaining about the effect this has on my life as my income is typically in the top 10% in the U.S., but still feel most of my potential gets lost in the struggle.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#12

Post by DanBC » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:02 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #9

I don't know if I really have ADD. There's no real physiological test for it, just self-assessments and the rejection of the null hypothesis upon the introduction of various drugs. What I do know: until I started treatment for ADD, the entire concept of "willpower" or "motivation" just didn't make sense to me. It was something other people had, maybe; or perhaps they were lying. But with treatment, "motivating myself…

It would be great if we could experiment upon you. Every three months we'd start you on a new regime of pills. You wouldn't know if they were meds or placebo. The people giving them to you wouldn't know either. The people writing the report wouldn't know, until after they'd written the report.

Obviously we can't do this. But I dearly love to know what the results would be.

For what it's worth: I suspect you would tell the difference between placebo and med. I'm not so sure about everyone taking those meds.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#13

Post by flycaliguy » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:05 PM UTC

I recently talked to my doctor about possibly having ADHD and when he asked me what brought me to seek help I mentioned that I had read some success stories on the internet. Stories about people who first described my symptoms and then described the incredible success they had achieved with Adderall or Concerta. I was referring in part to comments I had read here on Hacker News in the past.

He suggested that at least some of this could be attributed to advertising by drug companies and the agencies that represent them. That these days, with most people first turning to the internet before a doctor when it comes to health issues, a new guerrilla style of marketing had become increasingly popular. Something to keep in mind.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#14

Post by manicbovine » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:11 PM UTC

jotm wrote: post #7

Meanwhile, I still have to get my stimulants illegally.

It's really easy to fake ADD at a psychiatrist's office. They're working off a checklist.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#15

Post by harvestmoon » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:15 PM UTC

ADHD is overdiagnosed and is often used as a catch all solution for boys being boys. Our school system simply does not approve of kids having energy, being a bit aggressive and playful.

That said, as an author, I have focused on adult ADHD. In adults, it is often overlooked, and is estimated at around 4.4% prevalence ratio (the reasonable figures I've seen range from 4-5%.)

Treatment of ADHD can be lifechanging and allow someone to succeed where they were struggling and suffering before.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#16

Post by thro2 » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:23 PM UTC

negativity wrote: post #10

I don't suffer from ADD/ADHD but I grew up during the 90's, when lots of kids in school, around me, were being put on all kinds of prescription medication, but most prevalent were the ADD/ADHD prescriptions. Of the roughly 20 names I can remember, who I know for a fact were prescribed ADD/ADHD medications, AND who I knew growing up both before the medication and after, there was only one guy that obviously had proble…

this is great writing.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#17

Post by ikura » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:23 PM UTC

I tried so many different cures... just couldn't stick to any of them for any length of time.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#18

Post by maratd » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:24 PM UTC

invalidOrTaken wrote: post #3

I don't know. I just don't know. I earned a perfect score on the SAT and was voted "Class Genius" in the yearbook, but barely graduated from high school. I was dismissed from university. I went to work for a machine learning company, where we (self included!) did some really neat stuff, including some heroic pre-sales-meeting coding that saved the day in a minor way. But I was fired six months in for low productivity…

> Was it brain chemistry? ADD? Millenial entitlement? The Bipolar Lisp personality? Depression? SAD? A once-seen-impossible-to-unsee glimpse of the Gervais Principle?

Oh please, enough with the drama. I've led the same life. So has everyone else here.

I had the foresight to realize my ailment early on.

I'm lazy and bored easily, which is really the same thing.

> But I was fired six months in for low productivity and low engagement.

So people told you were lazy and rather than accept that at face value, you decided you have some sort of a medical condition?

Look, take my advice. Work for yourself and take on short-term projects. Nothing that lasts more than a month or two. That way, by the time you get bored with it, you're on to something entirely different.

> I realize I'm the proverbial crank working alone, but I'm trying very hard to avoid the common pitfalls---setting hard deadlines, getting customer feedback, getting appropriate exercise and social interaction, etc. And it's working. Things are happening. Milestones are being reached.

Eh? I spoke too soon. Looks like you're already on the right path.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#19

Post by tibbon » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:26 PM UTC

As a person with ADHD, that article was too long to hold my attention (no, I'm not making a joke here).

Also, as a person with ADHD who takes Adderall I don't see what the big fuss about it as a drug/medicine is. It works. I don't (personally) note any side effects, and don't see any reason that I'd stop taking it. Before taking Adderall I was essentially self-medicating my ADHD with copious amounts of coffee on a daily basis. Yet, no one talks about the drug of caffeine in such a negative way.

I wasn't ever diagnosed or treated for ADHD as a kid and I had huge issues with organization and focus in my younger years. I think if I had the 'focus' that I have now due to Adderall that I could have done significantly better in school and in my early career.

With Adderall I am no longer late to everything. I use my calendar effectively. I don't lose things (as much). I get probably 4x the amount of coding done per day. I'm better in conversation. I get through to do lists far quicker (and remember to use the list).

Over diagnosed? Sure. But I don't see why this drug is so demonized, where nicotine, alcohol and caffeine are just kinda standard parts of society and accepted.

Re: The Selling of Attention Deficit Disorder

#20

Post by derefr » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 10:31 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #12

derefr wrote: post #9

I don't know if I really have ADD. There's no real physiological test for it, just self-assessments and the rejection of the null hypothesis upon the introduction of various drugs. What I do know: until I started treatment for ADD, the entire concept of "willpower" or "motivation" just didn't make sense to me. It was something other people had, maybe; or perhaps they were lying. But with treatment, "motivating myself…

It would be great if we could experiment upon you. Every three months we'd start you on a new regime of pills. You wouldn't know if they were meds or placebo. The people giving them to you wouldn't know either. The people writing the report wouldn't know, until after they'd written the report. Obviously we can't do this. But I dearly love to know what the results would be. For what it's worth: I suspect you would tel…

It is a lovely idea. I would go even further; I wish for a world where everyone is given a "neuropharmapseutical chemistry kit" for their 13th birthdays (along with RISUG for boys, and a few other things) and told to play with their own brains (using a paired mobile app that gives them things like daily dual n-back tests) until they find a happy optimum.

Fill the kit with agonists, reuptake inhibitors, and antagonists for every major neurotransmitter—serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, GABA, acetylcholine, glutamine, histamine, etc.—in liver-keyed prodrug form. Provided as well would be something like an Epipen, full of a chemical that would preferentially react with (and thus neutralize) any prodrugs left in your bloodstream, in case of emergencies. (Not that your liver will let you process the prodrugs into amines quickly-enough to harm you physically, but there's always the chance of, say, sudden suicidal ideation.)

But ignoring futurism, we've always got gwern: http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics