Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 143 posts

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#121

Post by beachwood23 »

grecy wrote: post #64
mynameishere wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

figured out why people want to cause harm to their leaders Here's why people try to assassinate politicians: #1 They're nuts (Hinkley, Czolgosz, Squeaky Fromme). #2 They have some reason for doing so (Gavrilo Princip, Booth, probably Oswald). There. Figured it out. As it happens, there are probably 100x as many nuts in the US as Uruguay, and probably 10,000,000 times more possible motives to kill the head of state/he…

> Now you try and fix those two things. You mean with care for the mentally ill, etc. like in developed countries?

So you want to lock up any person who shows the slightest sign of instability?

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#122

Post by ezequiel-garzon »

alan_cx wrote: post #104
vasilipupkin wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all - a "socialist" system involves doubling taxes On the middle class - that's really tough to sell to....the middle class, shockingly

1) Are US taxes half EU taxes then? 2) "Middle class", do you mean working classes? 3) Why do so many people think its a choice between the two, socialism and capitalism? What people want is a sensible compromise where both systems work to service all of society's needs, instead of a single system which can only benefit one part of society. No one serious thinks pure, exclusive socialism is the answer to anything? It…

Absolutely! Although she's been politically forced, Merkel is setting up minimum eages in Germany, while Raul Castro has issued some (however mildly) free-enterprise initiatives, and something like that is coming up in China. Leave dogma to the ivory towers.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#123

Post by mschuster91 »

speeder wrote: post #111

Uruguay people fume when they read all those Mujica praising articles. I saw lots of Uruguyans upset on Reddit, and I have some Uruguyan roommates that explained to me why they hate Mujica. A couple recurring points: 1. Education worsened. 2. Crime skyrocketed, one of my roommates was a cop in Uruguay and said when he was a cop there was about 350 arrests per year, now there is that number in one month and only in th…

Marijuana was made legal only to increase government revenue, not in form.of taxes, but by having a law mandated monopoly

So what? It's better for the money to end up in state hands than in the hands of a multi-national mafiya network. Hey, I bet the US budget crisis could be solved by properly taxing drugs and shutting down law enforcement/DoC institutions not needed for a "War On Drugs" any more...

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#124

Post by Natsu »

singold wrote: post #113
Natsu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quite the opposite, I'm saying that it is long, but such sentences are normal for people convicted of bank robbery.

Also take into account that it is not the same to be in prison on a democracy that in a dictatorship.

Well yes, it's true that I have no way of knowing that he was actually guilty, that he got a fair trial, etc. But assuming he actually was guilty (a potentially bad assumption), then the prison sentence itself was not objectively unreasonable (it's within striking distance of an average sentence), though the prison conditions very well might have been unreasonable.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#125

Post by GFischer »

imd23 wrote: post #110

I'm Uruguayan and I love my country but please, Argentina is at least 2 or 3 times cheaper in everything and you have way more options and things to do. Also, I've just came from Buenos Aires, Argentina yesterday, me and my friends feel way more safe in Buenos Aires' streets than in Montevideo. We are really far from perfect.

I'm Uruguayan too and I don't feel safer in Buenos Aires.

I do agree security has gone down the drain and is now the #1 problem here (I was robbed twice this year).

And I also agree we're far from perfect. We do get some things right at least :)

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#126

Post by GFischer »

scottlilly wrote: post #109
patrickg_zill wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think any elite above a certain dollar amount or level of power, would just go elsewhere. Isn't Uruguay right beside Argentina, and Paraguay, for instance? And you can get a residency visa for Uruguay if you can show $500 a month income (I am told). Actually, Uruguay seems like a cool place to hang out... will add to bucket list.

I lived in Uruguay for almost a year, before moving on to Paraguay. When I left Uruguay 2.5 years ago, applying for residency was changing a bit. Apparently, nowadays, you need to show you have "enough income to support yourself". The people I know say that's usually around $1500/month. Also, expect it to take at least 18 months to finally complete your residency. It took over 2 years for some people I knew. However,…

Uruguay is probably among the most expensive places to live in currently (I'm Uruguayan, with family in Europe and Canada, so I can compare).

Cars are the most expensive in the world (at least 100% over US list price, often 200%, so a Honda Civic is a rich man's car and I'm not joking).

Salaries are South American standard, U$ 2000 / month is a HUGE salary, yet it doesn't get you that far !

Electronics are also expensive.

Housing is really expensive, rent is higher than anywhere in the U.S. excepting New York or San Francisco, unless you go to REALLY bad neighbourhoods.

And as scott says, it's really bureaucratic.

The only really big pro is that healthcare is good - basic stuff for free and really good coverage for what an American would consider incredibly cheap prices (U$ 70/month gets you coverage that includes house visits and emergency services which I've heard are impossible at any cost in the US, and U$ 100/month gets you into the very best hospital in the country.

The country is nice, we have nice beaches, I believe the people are friendly, etc. but that's true in several places :)

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#127

Post by pera »

stfu wrote: post #95

I thought the pandering to the underbelly ideology would only be celebrated among the reddit crowd. Sad to see that hn has been increasingly infected with these ideas as well. Sure, I am all for supporting the homeless and needy, but come on, re-purposing the presidential residence as a homeless shelter? That is the epitome of a populist gesture! If he is the president, he should act like a president, dress like a pr…

Wow I can't believe there actually is people like you around here, did you ever been in South America or in any "third-world country"? over here almost every president lives on big palaces, and owns extremely expensive cloths and cars, while the rest of us lives in very very poor conditions... they are not representing the common life style of their country, they are just enjoying the benefits of power.

Yeah sure: if you are the president of Austria you may waste the money if your people living like a king of the middle ages, but that's not the case of Uruguay.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#128

Post by hcarvalhoalves »

DominikR wrote: post #87
hcarvalhoalves wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not so fast. South america is a weird place (disclaimer: I live in Brazil). The overall vision is that the coming of democracy, after a history filled colonization, monarchies and military dictatorships in most countries, has been a net win; but at the same time, the presidential figure gets a disproportionate amount of worshiping in all of those, which is a sign that the democracy has not fully matured. As positive…

> has a tendency to pass popular policies, as opposed to good policies Isn't that the point of a democracy? What do you think how many wars, regime changes and dictatorships (all sponsored by the US) South America would have seen in the last 50 years if every single one of those aggressions had to pass a popular democratic vote in the first place? I do not think that there ever has been a majority in any country (whe…

> Isn't that the point of a democracy?

No, the point of democracy is reaching compromises.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#129

Post by glesica »

vasilipupkin wrote: post #89
yodsanklai wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a more socialist country where health care and education are free, and where we have have a good balance between work and personal time and I hope it'll stay the same despite the international pressure. I don't know why "socialism" is such a bad word in the US. Probably propaganda from the rich to keep their privileges. I had the chance to live in the US for a couple of years (it was a child dream of mine t…

healthcare and education in your country aren't free - they are paid for by high taxes on the middle class

High taxes are fine with me as long as I, and everyone else, also get a high level of services. In some sense it is understandable that middle-class Americans have a distaste for taxation since most of the tax money just ends up being funneled to the upper-class through corporate subsidies, grants, tax credits, and warfare.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#130

Post by markvdb »

rodgerd wrote: post #81
S4M wrote: post #60

It's very nice to read about a political leader who renounces to the ostentation people in power usually have. However I am a bit concerned for the man's security. Since he can't be corrupted, assassination would be an option for a powerful group that sees him as an obstacle. For example, it's very plausible that a mafia would see its revenues drop from the sales of cannabis, and so would have strong interests to hav…

> However I am a bit concerned for the man's security. Since he can't be corrupted, assassination would be an option for a powerful group that sees him as an obstacle. The biggest risk to South American leaders has tended to be agents of the US government. No security detail is going to achieve much against another illegally-financed Contra campaign, a Grenada invasion, or a replay of Chile.

Hm, indeed... http://www.yachana.org/teaching/resources/interventions.html
Post reply on HN