Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills • Hacker News Board

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#111

Post by speeder » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 1:02 PM UTC

Uruguay people fume when they read all those Mujica praising articles.

I saw lots of Uruguyans upset on Reddit, and I have some Uruguyan roommates that explained to me why they hate Mujica.

A couple recurring points:

1. Education worsened. 2. Crime skyrocketed, one of my roommates was a cop in Uruguay and said when he was a cop there was about 350 arrests per year, now there is that number in one month and only in the capital, and for more violent crimes, like murder, where the most serious crime he usually arrested someone was stealing without using force. 3. Although the president is populist and socialist, somehow people now are starving, my roommates are here in Brazil to earn money to ship to their families, and they said this was not necessary before Mujica, one claims that the government took 150000 USD that his mother left in a savings account. 4. Mujica openly bribed voters. Several expat Uruguyans repeated the story that Mujica paid airfare to anyone willing to go back to Uruguay during elections and vote for him. 5. Mujica is fake poor. Although he gives away his salary, the population believes he gets a cut from Brazilian and Argentinean gold laundered there. 6. Marijuana was made legal only to increase government revenue, not in form.of taxes, but by having a law mandated monopoly. There are lots of other complaints, these are the common ones.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#112

Post by pfortuny » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 1:18 PM UTC

Mhj... Palaces, motorcades and "frills" are designed to allow the governors to work from the "abstract", which is the only sensible way to make good, consistent and long-term policy.

The first question that comes to mind is... Is the palace his property to turn it (or just part of it) into a shelter? Because being president does not turn you into the owner of the palace.

What is the former presidential driver working at?

Etc.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#113

Post by singold » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 1:18 PM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #72

mistermumble wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So are you saying that 14 years is not a long prison sentence? By the way, that is about 10% longer than the average prison sentence for bank robbery in the US. See http://www.popcenter.org/problems/robbery_banks/4

Quite the opposite, I'm saying that it is long, but such sentences are normal for people convicted of bank robbery.

Also take into account that it is not the same to be in prison on a democracy that in a dictatorship.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#114

Post by rbanffy » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 1:22 PM UTC

bpodgursky wrote: post #11

Uruguay's population is 3.3 million, which is a bit smaller than Oklahoma, for comparison. It's not shocking to me that a head of state of a small country like that doesn't have all the trappings and security a of a country of 100mm / 300mm / a billion people.

Maybe not the trappings, but the security is a function of how many enemies the politician in question and its country have.

The downside of "liberating" countries by invading them (or funding revolutions) and installing puppet governments is that some part of the population gets really annoyed with that.

I'd love to live in a world where every president could live without a human shield around them, not because they would be more accessible to their people (which would be a nice plus) but because it would be a symptom the world has become a safe place.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#115

Post by singold » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 1:51 PM UTC

memracom wrote: post #66

patrickg_zill wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think any elite above a certain dollar amount or level of power, would just go elsewhere. Isn't Uruguay right beside Argentina, and Paraguay, for instance? And you can get a residency visa for Uruguay if you can show $500 a month income (I am told). Actually, Uruguay seems like a cool place to hang out... will add to bucket list.

Think about it. Everyone gets a free computer from the state. Of course only a percentage of those will learn how to program it, but imagine what an experienced professional software developer could do in a country like that, with a ready source of junior developers who all speak fluent Spanish, the second largest language group worldwide after Mandarin. If you are good at coaching/mentoring younger developers then U…

Probably in 15 or 20 years.

First of all, not everyone gets a free computer. Only those kids who go to public schools. That is the "poorer" that can't pay a private school, and the relatively rich that live in richer neighborhoods where the public school doesn't suck.

The teachers really don't understand almost nothing about computers and can't teach how to use them properly (from a techie point of view).

Also, as another commenter correctly states, Uruguay isn't a very entrepeneurial country and it is very bureacratic.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#116

Post by twoodfin » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 2:14 PM UTC

smtddr wrote: post #39

notanidiot5 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because we see news reports of poor American citizens dying everyday because of starvation. Keep pushing your propaganda though.

Don't forget, for most Americans... one unexpected hospital bill is all that stands between them and financial ruin. USA can be an okay place to be as long as you don't get sick...

The vast majority of Americans even pre-ACA had either government-provided insurance or employer group insurance, neither of which would lead to "unexpected hospital bills". Even the existing private insurance market was pretty reliable here ("rescission" was vanishingly rare).

So I'm curious how you came up with "most Americans".

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#117

Post by walshemj » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 2:35 PM UTC

mynameishere wrote: post #51

grecy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than spending money "defending" your leaders, wouldn't it be better if you addressed the issues and actually figured out why people want to cause harm to their leaders? You know, many developed countries don't even have a security force for their leaders, and for example, the ex-Prime Minister of Australia went jogging all the time by himself, in whatever city he happens to be in.

figured out why people want to cause harm to their leaders Here's why people try to assassinate politicians: #1 They're nuts (Hinkley, Czolgosz, Squeaky Fromme). #2 They have some reason for doing so (Gavrilo Princip, Booth, probably Oswald). There. Figured it out. As it happens, there are probably 100x as many nuts in the US as Uruguay, and probably 10,000,000 times more possible motives to kill the head of state/he…

you missed #3 as part of a coup attempt - which unfortunately South America has had a lot of.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#118

Post by mikeash » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 2:45 PM UTC

macspoofing wrote: post #79

mikeash wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A homeless shelter is "meaningless"? Wow. I could understand downplaying its significance (e.g. the leader of a country could do more good with policy that improves his country's economy) but giving people shelter is not "meaningless" no matter how you slice it.

Nothing wrong with a shelter. However the the act of designating the presidential palace as a homeless shelter is meaningless because it a) doesn't actually fix anything (one shelter does not a social policy make and has no wider impact - and that's what national governments concern themselves with) b) there is no good reason to re-purpose that particular building, as opposed to another building or spending a few ext…

I see the problem. You meant "meaningless" as in "it doesn't tell us anything about whether this person is a great guy or not". I interpreted "meaningless" as in "this act has no consequences and does not actually help people as it intends to do".

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#119

Post by a8da6b0c91d » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 3:15 PM UTC

stfu wrote: post #95

I thought the pandering to the underbelly ideology would only be celebrated among the reddit crowd. Sad to see that hn has been increasingly infected with these ideas as well. Sure, I am all for supporting the homeless and needy, but come on, re-purposing the presidential residence as a homeless shelter? That is the epitome of a populist gesture! If he is the president, he should act like a president, dress like a pr…

The trappings of imperial grandeur still seem alien and disconcerting to the american. We don't have a history of it. For the first ~80 years of the american republic the politicians were mostly retired old guys working part time. The scope of the central government only first reached a european scale in the 1930s. Even then, FDR drove himself and his family around in the family car. Elanor Roosevelt frequently did the cooking in the white house.

With the talk of the pope's scaled down lifestyle, it's funny to read about how weirded out American catholic representatives were at the first vatican council way back in 1869. The pomp was strange, and a lot of the ideas about social hierarchy were strange.

Re: Uruguay's president José Mujica: no palace, no motorcade, no frills

#120

Post by a8da6b0c91d » Sat, Dec 14, 2013, 3:23 PM UTC

skrebbel wrote: post #84

This is really nice to read, but it's not that special. For example, the Dutch prime minister earns €144.000 euros a year. It's a high salary, but nothing at all that affords a palace. A good senior programmer earns the same in the valley, and the taxes here are higher. I find this whole idea that presidents should be posh and it's super-special if they're not, well, a bit odd and basically thr wrong approach. We sho…

> build ridiculous palaces for themselves

I'd go further and say the whole model of a gleaming capital city with ornate temples of governance is well out of date. Most representative government could be handled over conference calls and the internet. You could rent out a convention center somewhere a few times a year to hold sessions.