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Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

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Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#111

Post by jackgavigan »

barrkel wrote: post #99
outworlder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not expect Google to implement it anytime soon, due to the massive app breakage potential. Android's permission system looks good on the surface. However, there are so many required permissons nowadays that many users do not even check them anymore. And you can revoke specific permissions on an app by app basis. On iOS, developers are told not to rely on certain permissions being available, such as location. Some…

There is almost zero app breakage potential. Because the implementation shouldn't be refusing permissions, it should simply be mocking them. Ask for a location? Mock it to an arbitrary location. Asking for contacts? Return an empty list, or a list with joe.smith@example.org. Etc.

> ..the implementation shouldn't be refusing permissions, it should simply be mocking them. Ask for a location? Mock it to an arbitrary location.

Like 38° 53' 50.55", -77° 2' 14.51"

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#112

Post by king_jester »

jre wrote: post #93
outworlder wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not expect Google to implement it anytime soon, due to the massive app breakage potential. Android's permission system looks good on the surface. However, there are so many required permissons nowadays that many users do not even check them anymore. And you can revoke specific permissions on an app by app basis. On iOS, developers are told not to rely on certain permissions being available, such as location. Some…

As long as the disallowed permissions simply return empty results (or random stuff) for the API calls, I don't see how this can break apps.

AFAIK, AppOps doesn't do this, it throws a java exception when the app code attempts to use a permission that has been disabled. Depending on how the code is structured, you may or may not have your app break/crash.

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#113

Post by pjc50 »

CalRobert wrote: post #24

I'm probably going to turn in to that old guy with tin foil who can't play any games because nobody supports his choice of platform, but I really miss when computers were devices you could buy and then put your choice of OS on. Phones are pretty much just little ARM computers, why the hell don't I just install Ubuntu, Firefox OS, Android, WinPhone, Symbian, whatever? I could format a microSD card to boot from and go…

The touch keyboard lacks feedback but folds to zero size, which is its great advantage. And people are in practice getting along just fine with them, which is why the hardware keyboards have fallen by the wayside.

The main obstacle to boot-your-own-phone in the US is of course the carriers.

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#114

Post by gorhill »

rtpg wrote: post #4

I'm surprised this feature wasn't in place from day 1. It probably involves almost no implementation overhead on the OS side of things. Apps, on the other hand, would have an extra error case to deal with, but they should be dealing with other error cases anyways.

> "they should be dealing with other error cases anyways"

Especially when "Access to all your contacts" (or whatever) is really not needed for the application to work correctly.

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#115

Post by Dylan16807 »

fooqux wrote: post #94
wting wrote: post #14

If you have root you can still enable it with market apps.[0][1] However something like this needs to be integrated tightly like iOS and apps need to be aware they may not receive requested permissions. I still use App Ops in Kit Kat and it silently breaks apps all the time. Apps expect to be able request information (e.g. contact details) and crash or stall when they can't. In that respect, LBE Privacy Guard[2] was…

I think the article is a tad misleading here, and I think your first link is going to add to the confusion. The ability to revoke permissions was built right into the System Settings app, but the ability to access it was hidden from view. Custom roms would usually add a link to it, and apps like AppOps by ColorTiger (your first link) was simply a pointer that would trigger that view to activate (I'm glossing over the…

>The pointer has been dereferenced, if you will.

...'dereference' means 'access the pointed-to data'

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#116

Post by exodust »

FeloniousHam wrote: post #81
Kequc wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whatever, fuck Google. Well this is going to be productive. I'm pretty sure Google isn't out to put all of its users through a meat grinder. For one thing people have been way off the handle about Google touching anything. At all. This article only mentions an accident that lasted one day. So it's "fuck Google" after everything, still, again I guess.

Right on, right on. While I like the potential of this app, the millions of devices with billions of applications that would simply stopping working with its introduction mean it will need a carefully orchestrated rollout. HN readers might be comfortable with "ever beta" technologies, but the other 99% of users are not (and it's odd that smart people fail to appreciate this).

"billions of applications that would simply stopping working".

So what? The user can just re-enable the app's access to whatever it was trying to fetch.

I don't buy the "millions of apps simply stop working" line. If the apps stops working because it was blocked trying to access my address book, then the app developer should have done better to expect the unexpected when fetching anything from outside the application that isn't essential to its core function and purpose.

Even the simplest of javascript functions will handle a null value or failed fetch. There's even an "onerror" handler for HTML img tags! And you're telling me that millions of apps will fail because they don't receive what they're trying to fetch? Sounds like an exaggeration, or bad programming, or a bad OS.

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#117

Post by exodust »

jxf wrote: post #92
SmileyKeith wrote: post #90

This is a major issue Google needs to deal with in Android IMO. I'm surprised that this feature ever existed in Android because of how coupled permissions are with applications. Since applications request all permissions on install I imagine most developers don't have much conditional code for their failure, unlike iOS where you have to because there's a possibility a user may deny access to a single specific thing,…

That's partially because developers are somewhat incentivized to "front-load" their permissions. If you think there's even a chance you might use a permission, even if your app doesn't currently use it, ask for it on the first install. Then, later, when you actually do want to use it, your app update won't say that you need any new permissions.

This doesn't sound right to me. I don't think developers are doing this.

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#118

Post by SmileyKeith »

jxf wrote: post #92
SmileyKeith wrote: post #90

This is a major issue Google needs to deal with in Android IMO. I'm surprised that this feature ever existed in Android because of how coupled permissions are with applications. Since applications request all permissions on install I imagine most developers don't have much conditional code for their failure, unlike iOS where you have to because there's a possibility a user may deny access to a single specific thing,…

That's partially because developers are somewhat incentivized to "front-load" their permissions. If you think there's even a chance you might use a permission, even if your app doesn't currently use it, ask for it on the first install. Then, later, when you actually do want to use it, your app update won't say that you need any new permissions.

I definitely get that. With automatic updates I bet that a lot of applications sit in that update queue on people's devices since they actually have to confirm the new permissions.

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#119

Post by auctiontheory »

fooqux wrote: post #94
wting wrote: post #14

If you have root you can still enable it with market apps.[0][1] However something like this needs to be integrated tightly like iOS and apps need to be aware they may not receive requested permissions. I still use App Ops in Kit Kat and it silently breaks apps all the time. Apps expect to be able request information (e.g. contact details) and crash or stall when they can't. In that respect, LBE Privacy Guard[2] was…

I think the article is a tad misleading here, and I think your first link is going to add to the confusion. The ability to revoke permissions was built right into the System Settings app, but the ability to access it was hidden from view. Custom roms would usually add a link to it, and apps like AppOps by ColorTiger (your first link) was simply a pointer that would trigger that view to activate (I'm glossing over the…

The pointer has been dereferenced, if you will.

I do not think dereferenced means what you think it means.

Re: Google Removes Vital Privacy Feature From Android, Claims Release Was Accidental

#120

Post by tomrod »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #102
CalRobert wrote: post #24

I'm probably going to turn in to that old guy with tin foil who can't play any games because nobody supports his choice of platform, but I really miss when computers were devices you could buy and then put your choice of OS on. Phones are pretty much just little ARM computers, why the hell don't I just install Ubuntu, Firefox OS, Android, WinPhone, Symbian, whatever? I could format a microSD card to boot from and go…

Re. proper keyboards - the market says otherwise. There have been plenty of Android phones with hard keyboards but they've not sold in sufficient quantities to make it attractive. If there was a market for it, people would be making them, if you disagree with that they what are you doing on here, your fortune awaits... Also worth seeing kids who've never used a physical keyboard to any great extent. I've seen them do…

User preferences != the market. They are half the market.

What this really says is that virtual keyboards have practically no cost, and so utilizing them instead of physical keyboards saves more in marginal (and perhaps per-unit) cost than the revenue from lost customers that require a physical keyboard.

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