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Why was this secret?

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Re: Why was this secret?

#191

Post by matz1 »

Ygg2 wrote: post #180
matz1 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an open society, I would expect society people view toward this issue will change as well. If everybody know my things and I know everybody things, hopefully stigma or negative impact an toward the issue mentioned will be less.

There can never be something such as truly open society, not in the foreseeable future. As truth becomes the norm, the value of lies becomes greater. If you lie constantly your lies have less value, than if you tell truth but lie about important facts. IMO Truly open society can only be established if faking a signal is impossible. Which I doubt it will ever be.

Yeah not truly open society like you said but I imagine with the advancement of technology where information can be gathered easily by anyone, it will be close enough.

Re: Why was this secret?

#192

Post by matz1 »

timbro wrote: post #170
hdevalence wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That you will become way less concerned with what other people think of you when you realize how seldom they do." (David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest) (But this isn't to disagree with the grandparent post, either. Just a statement on perspective.)

That may be true if you're the kind of person who never stands up to anybody. If you never voice disagreement or opposition, then you can be that 100% transparent citizen. But it's difficult or impossible to reverse this, once you've gone down that path. And as soon as you'll feel like saying something critical, you can very easily be manipulated to remain silent, because the other party will know all your weaknesses…

I would know other people weakness too.

Re: Why was this secret?

#194

Post by Nursie »

matz1 wrote: post #192
timbro wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true if you're the kind of person who never stands up to anybody. If you never voice disagreement or opposition, then you can be that 100% transparent citizen. But it's difficult or impossible to reverse this, once you've gone down that path. And as soon as you'll feel like saying something critical, you can very easily be manipulated to remain silent, because the other party will know all your weaknesses…

I would know other people weakness too.

And then we would end up with the tyranny of the genuinely ascetic, the puritanical and those that lie so well they can mask everything from everyone (sociopaths).

Yay.

Re: Why was this secret?

#195

Post by rmc »

timbro wrote: post #170
hdevalence wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That you will become way less concerned with what other people think of you when you realize how seldom they do." (David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest) (But this isn't to disagree with the grandparent post, either. Just a statement on perspective.)

That may be true if you're the kind of person who never stands up to anybody. If you never voice disagreement or opposition, then you can be that 100% transparent citizen. But it's difficult or impossible to reverse this, once you've gone down that path. And as soon as you'll feel like saying something critical, you can very easily be manipulated to remain silent, because the other party will know all your weaknesses…

It's also true if you're from a privileged background. Straight cis men have a lot of advantages that way.

Re: Why was this secret?

#196

Post by rmc »

bambax wrote: post #164
grellas wrote: post #101

Why was her diary secret? Well, because she wanted it so. And that should be enough. When it comes to information that any given person regards as intimate about oneself, that should always be enough. It doesn't matter that someone else might peruse that information and say, "there is nothing special here." Why? Because it is not that person's judgment to make. There may be nothing special about my exact bank balance…

If you write down your secrets on a diary, or tell some of your friends about it, or God forbid! write it up on Facebook, then you're asking for trouble (or maybe you want those "secrets" to not stay secret forever). My secrets are in my head, I don't talk about them to anyone, I don't write them down. They will die with me. Of course that doesn't work for a business. But a business is NOT a person, so it's disingenu…

It's not that binary. Something can be a "secret" and yet you have to tell some people, but not others.

What if your "secret" is that you're gay and you're in an evangelical hardcore religious family and you want to get out? How do you talk to a help group far away without telling your parents? Is "I'm gay" a secret? You have to tell the help group, but don't want to tell your parents. "Keep it in your head and tell no-one" just doesn't work then.

Re: Why was this secret?

#198

Post by Ygg2 »

matz1 wrote: post #191
Ygg2 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There can never be something such as truly open society, not in the foreseeable future. As truth becomes the norm, the value of lies becomes greater. If you lie constantly your lies have less value, than if you tell truth but lie about important facts. IMO Truly open society can only be established if faking a signal is impossible. Which I doubt it will ever be.

Yeah not truly open society like you said but I imagine with the advancement of technology where information can be gathered easily by anyone, it will be close enough.

I don't think gathering is a part. As long as you can easily fake it, it will not lead to "open society".

Re: Why was this secret?

#199

Post by rehack »

grellas wrote: post #101

Why was her diary secret? Well, because she wanted it so. And that should be enough. When it comes to information that any given person regards as intimate about oneself, that should always be enough. It doesn't matter that someone else might peruse that information and say, "there is nothing special here." Why? Because it is not that person's judgment to make. There may be nothing special about my exact bank balance…

Thanks for this. I had read Derek's post and was uncomfortable with it, and you have articulated the downsides well.

I think blog post appeals to a part of us which wants to be very trusting and open. I actually had a flashing thought of open sourcing our code (which we have been growing for years) but better sense prevailed soon. Of course there are things which we won't want the competitors to know etc.

Although as other commenters have said and I agree, that Derek probably didn't want it to be a blanket prescription. But still it had a pop feel good sense to it. And well thought out 'reality check' kind of response was needed.

Re: Why was this secret?

#200

Post by dredmorbius »

dangayle wrote: post #31
caf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a joke, if I want to get rid of a piece of old furniture on the footpath I'll always put a $5 sign on it.

Works wonders with largish appliances like washers or refrigerators. Free? Must be broken. $10? Must still work.

That's one of the paradoxes of pricing: price itself is inferred to be an indicator of quality, so "free" is often perceived as "lower quality".

While this can be true, it isn't entirely reliable.

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