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Why was this secret?

sivers.org

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Re: Why was this secret?

#151

Post by jonahx »

grellas wrote: post #101

Why was her diary secret? Well, because she wanted it so. And that should be enough. When it comes to information that any given person regards as intimate about oneself, that should always be enough. It doesn't matter that someone else might peruse that information and say, "there is nothing special here." Why? Because it is not that person's judgment to make. There may be nothing special about my exact bank balance…

I don't think Derek was arguing that she shouldn't have the right to keep it secret, or that we shouldn't respect her wishes.

The point of the piece is that many of our "secrets" -- things we guard carefully and fear being exposed -- wouldn't surprise, or even interest, other people.

It's just a shift in perspective, not an attack on anyone's right to privacy.

Re: Why was this secret?

#152

Post by nrivadeneira »

acuozzo wrote: post #123
natch wrote: post #63

Is Sivers really suggesting that just because she was OK with him reading the diary, she would be OK with anyone reading it? That seems like a highly naive assumption. And seriously, this is your entire project list? "Everything is listed..." As a programmer and someone who sees how other programmers work, I am not buying it. Please don't lecture us on secrets with weak false examples. It comes off as disingenuous.

> And seriously, this is your entire project list? I wish my list would grow past 0 items. I honestly have no itches to scratch.

> I wish my list would grow past 0 items.

> I honestly have no itches to scratch.

Looks like you do have an itch to scratch...though I can't think of any good solutions to wishing for more projects.

Re: Why was this secret?

#153

Post by marcus_holmes »

woah wrote: post #110
grellas wrote: post #101

Why was her diary secret? Well, because she wanted it so. And that should be enough. When it comes to information that any given person regards as intimate about oneself, that should always be enough. It doesn't matter that someone else might peruse that information and say, "there is nothing special here." Why? Because it is not that person's judgment to make. There may be nothing special about my exact bank balance…

If a competitor came in and took your customer list, would it be good for your customers?

Yes. Clearly. Competition benefits customers, and better market information allows better competition.

Would it be good for you? Yes, probably, but it'd be scary. If your competitor can take your customers from you then you need to improve your offering. If they can't then you can probably take their customers from them.

Who benefits from keeping your customer list secret?

Re: Why was this secret?

#154

Post by PavlovsCat »

blah32497 wrote: post #33
jarrett wrote: post #9

In the context of coding projects, the author's conclusion seems realistic. Given current events though, I can't help but wonder if there's a subtext about privacy and snooping. If so, then I would venture this observation: Your friend's super-secret diary is meaningless to you only because you have no desire to abuse the access you've been given. Suppose instead your friend's devious enemy obtained the diary. Then,…

The reasons for privacy are always so contrived. "Dystopian futures", "enemies trying to ruin lives" etc. etc. It never resonates with me. I think what the author is trying to say is that if you live an open life with few secrets, then your life will be less stressful. He's encouraging us to really reevaluate what we keep secret b/c when you sit down to think about it, it's most likely all in your head.

> it's most likely all in your head.

It's one thing to never have been persecuted or discriminated against yourself, but it's not really excusable to be so completely unaware of your own privilege and sheltered life.

Re: Why was this secret?

#155

Post by ryanklee »

How about this: No one can predict the import of what's recorded NOW. Not the person who records it, not the person who observes it, not the person who comes upon it 5 minutes, 5 years, 5 decades later.

Keeping your material projections close to the vest, keeping them out, as far as possible, from the unpredictable hands of the future is just good sense.

The times are changing. We have very little grasp on how what we record now - private, public, or otherwise (?) - will impact us in the future.

There's a virtue in openness, to be sure. But maintaining privacy is no bad thing. No matter what the talking walnut says.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKd7z5CY4BU

Re: Why was this secret?

#156

Post by hdevalence »

jonahx wrote: post #151
grellas wrote: post #101

Why was her diary secret? Well, because she wanted it so. And that should be enough. When it comes to information that any given person regards as intimate about oneself, that should always be enough. It doesn't matter that someone else might peruse that information and say, "there is nothing special here." Why? Because it is not that person's judgment to make. There may be nothing special about my exact bank balance…

I don't think Derek was arguing that she shouldn't have the right to keep it secret, or that we shouldn't respect her wishes. The point of the piece is that many of our "secrets" -- things we guard carefully and fear being exposed -- wouldn't surprise, or even interest, other people. It's just a shift in perspective, not an attack on anyone's right to privacy.

"That you will become way less concerned with what other people think of you when you realize how seldom they do."

(David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest)

(But this isn't to disagree with the grandparent post, either. Just a statement on perspective.)

Re: Why was this secret?

#157

Post by coldtea »

blah32497 wrote: post #127
coldtea wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He isn't arguing that privacy is inherently bad, or you should never ever have secrets. Yeah, if your trying to overthrow an fascist regime, it makes sense to have secrets. But again, that's a contrived reason. If you're MLK, that's not really the norm. That's a contrived reason too. For one, it SHOULD be the norm. "Be the change you want to see in the world" and everything. It's not just something to pay lip servi…

Okay, I reread the article b/c I was starting to feel like I read something completely different. At no point does the author mention the government and at no point does he mention making every aspect of your life public. Seems like most of the people replying either didn't read the article and they just want to vent. There are legitimate reason to have secrets, and there are reasons that are stressors and actually s…

>At no point does the author mention the government and at no point does he mention making every aspect of your life public.

No, but others in this discussion did (mention both) -- a discussion is not constrained by exactly what served to start it, it explores other tangents. Especially in this case, it was inevitable that TFA's advice, while meant for personal use, also had to be considered in relation with the current privacy issues in general.

>"Be the change you want to see in the world" I didn't think anyone actually believe that literally till now. You want everyone to picks and chooses what laws to abide by?

No, I want everyone to fight against injustice and for his principles, instead of self-identifying as an "average Joe" (only concerned with his personal affairs).

>In this case I'm okay with having my right infringed, because I realize that it's not just my world to live in, and we as a society agree on some rules - some of which I don't like.

Perhaps, but there's still a huge part of life, involving perhaps 100% of the population, that's against some law or another. From a 19-yo drinking beer with his friends, to a guy ripping of a DVD using DeCSS, to Kerouac using his drugs and America getting a literary masterpiece out of it. And to millions of gays, for example, having sex besides sodomy being a crime back in the day ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy_laws_in_the_United_State... ).

What makes society tolerable is that not all those laws are (or can) be 100% enforced all the time. A total lack of privacy brings any of those "offenses" towards being discoverable and punishable, which is a dystopia in itself.

Re: Why was this secret?

#158

Post by spagina09 »

blah32497 wrote: post #74
coldtea wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reasons for privacy are always so contrived. "Dystopian futures", "enemies trying to ruin lives" etc. etc. It never resonates with me. That's because you're an average Joe. And even you, you use a pseudonymous account name here on HN. Now think of all the lives of change-makers, dissidents, activists etc that were fucked up with the use of such private information (from their sexual preferences to who they meet…

> That's because you're an average Joe. And I think this article is written targeting the average Joe. Everyone is getting off on tangents about how the gov't is going to go fascist and that privacy is the best thing in the world. He isn't arguing that privacy is inherently bad, or you should never ever have secrets. Yeah, if your trying to overthrow an fascist regime, it makes sense to have secrets. But again, that'…

I really don't understand the statement of more secrets than someone needs.

I bet your own mind isn't an open book, you have desires and wants, knowledge, aspirations, and things that belong solely to you. This isn't to be looked down upon, everything shouldn't be an open book for the world to read and judge upon and they should belong to you. That isn't unhealthy, it doesn't mark a lack of moral character, it's your own internal conversation, and frankly, more people need to learn how to work within themselves instead of making everything an open book for everyone else to judge and comment on like they are the Kardashians.

Re: Why was this secret?

#159

Post by spagina09 »

dreamfactory wrote: post #82
blah32497 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because you're an average Joe. And I think this article is written targeting the average Joe. Everyone is getting off on tangents about how the gov't is going to go fascist and that privacy is the best thing in the world. He isn't arguing that privacy is inherently bad, or you should never ever have secrets. Yeah, if your trying to overthrow an fascist regime, it makes sense to have secrets. But again, that'…

That's a variant on 'nothing to hide nothing to fear'. Plenty of average Joes in East Germany under the Stasi may disagree with that notion being even potentially benign in its outcome. I'd imagine you have doors and curtains/blinds in your house - most people do and it's not out of neurosis and paranoia.

Or further,

Good fences make good neighbors.

It's not because I dislike my neighbors, I just like being able to not look at them and enjoy my home in privacy.

Re: Why was this secret?

#160

Post by spagina09 »

matz1 wrote: post #108
blah32497 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons for privacy are always so contrived. "Dystopian futures", "enemies trying to ruin lives" etc. etc. It never resonates with me. I think what the author is trying to say is that if you live an open life with few secrets, then your life will be less stressful. He's encouraging us to really reevaluate what we keep secret b/c when you sit down to think about it, it's most likely all in your head.

Yes open transparent society, this the future I'm looking forward to. I would no need to hide my credit card number, bank account, sexual quirk, etc, If anybody trying to abuse that, they will be easily tracked.

Keep private things private.

The world doesn't need to know your sexual quirks, or your bank balance, and you shouldn't feel the need to broadcast it.

People I interact with know I have a wife, they don't need to know her favorite lube or position. That is crude and unnecessary, and a society that expects that knowledge and welcomes it with open arms has a major root issue.

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