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Why was this secret?

sivers.org

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Re: Why was this secret?

#121

Post by ShirtlessRod »

woah wrote: post #110
grellas wrote: post #101

Why was her diary secret? Well, because she wanted it so. And that should be enough. When it comes to information that any given person regards as intimate about oneself, that should always be enough. It doesn't matter that someone else might peruse that information and say, "there is nothing special here." Why? Because it is not that person's judgment to make. There may be nothing special about my exact bank balance…

If a competitor came in and took your customer list, would it be good for your customers?

It sounds like you're saying that the ends justify the means.

Re: Why was this secret?

#122

Post by matz1 »

lesserknowndan wrote: post #120
amirmc wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's flip that around. The key point would be "everyone's location ... No exceptions". Then you'd know if that abusive partner was approaching you (and call relevant authorities). The dealers would probably also be known without needing a witness. Of course, we'd also know who was sleeping with whom and when. It's an interesting thought experiment to imagine such a world but for it to be viable, society would have t…

Assuming that the location is based on tracking a mobile phone, the aggressor could quite easily leave their phone at home and if they need a phone take an unregistered one. The problem with open information is that those with evil intent can take precautions to ensure their activities aren't monitored.

This is not the problem with open society in itself. The same problem happen in private society. Anybody motivated enough can hack through your secret given enough effort.

Re: Why was this secret?

#123

Post by acuozzo »

natch wrote: post #63

Is Sivers really suggesting that just because she was OK with him reading the diary, she would be OK with anyone reading it? That seems like a highly naive assumption. And seriously, this is your entire project list? "Everything is listed..." As a programmer and someone who sees how other programmers work, I am not buying it. Please don't lecture us on secrets with weak false examples. It comes off as disingenuous.

> And seriously, this is your entire project list?

I wish my list would grow past 0 items.

I honestly have no itches to scratch.

Re: Why was this secret?

#124

Post by visakanv »

My interpretation of Derek's point: "A lot of us keep things secret for the sake of keeping them secret without particularly evaluating whether the secrecy serves any purpose. On average, this means that there are things that are secret that shouldn't necessarily be. We might all be better off if we were a little more willing to share things that might not actually need to be secret."

Not everything needs to be secret != everything should be public

His post is written to describe his personal journey about his personal attitude towards his own work. I think a lot of people are misinterpreting him to be saying something broader and blunter than he actually is.

Re: Why was this secret?

#126

Post by ShirtlessRod »

matz1 wrote: post #119
mcintyre1994 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're not capping the level of abuse it could easily be too late though. Let's take it to the extreme, somebody wants to kill you and you have no choice but to broadcast your location to everybody. Some people receiving that data, you don't know who, are happy to do the killing for the person who wants to kill you. Afterward they can be identified and tracked down, but at this extremity it's too late.

The punishment for killing is the deterrent.

For people that have rational minds. What about people who are irrational or have some sort of mental illness? I guess that's just a "too bad" for the person who is now dead?

Re: Why was this secret?

#127

Post by blah32497 »

coldtea wrote: post #107
blah32497 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's because you're an average Joe. And I think this article is written targeting the average Joe. Everyone is getting off on tangents about how the gov't is going to go fascist and that privacy is the best thing in the world. He isn't arguing that privacy is inherently bad, or you should never ever have secrets. Yeah, if your trying to overthrow an fascist regime, it makes sense to have secrets. But again, that'…

> He isn't arguing that privacy is inherently bad, or you should never ever have secrets. Yeah, if your trying to overthrow an fascist regime, it makes sense to have secrets. But again, that's a contrived reason. If you're MLK, that's not really the norm. That's a contrived reason too. For one, it SHOULD be the norm. "Be the change you want to see in the world" and everything. It's not just something to pay lip servi…

Okay, I reread the article b/c I was starting to feel like I read something completely different.

At no point does the author mention the government and at no point does he mention making every aspect of your life public.

Seems like most of the people replying either didn't read the article and they just want to vent. There are legitimate reason to have secrets, and there are reasons that are stressors and actually serve no purpose.

Completely different topic:

"Be the change you want to see in the world"

I didn't think anyone actually believe that literally till now. You want everyone to picks and chooses what laws to abide by?

The reality is that punishment goes into the cost benefit analysis everyone does. For example: Say I believe I should have the right to hire a prostitute. Should I do it out of principle? How about if I don't want to risk going to jail? Is that not a valid reason?

In this case I'm okay with having my right infringed, because I realize that it's not just my world to live in, and we as a society agree on some rules - some of which I don't like.

Re: Why was this secret?

#128

Post by ShirtlessRod »

matz1 wrote: post #122
lesserknowndan wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that the location is based on tracking a mobile phone, the aggressor could quite easily leave their phone at home and if they need a phone take an unregistered one. The problem with open information is that those with evil intent can take precautions to ensure their activities aren't monitored.

This is not the problem with open society in itself. The same problem happen in private society. Anybody motivated enough can hack through your secret given enough effort.

"Given enough effort" is the key there. Just because someone can break into your house given enough effort doesn't mean you leave your doors off the hinges.

Re: Why was this secret?

#130

Post by matz1 »

wonderzombie wrote: post #53
blah32497 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons for privacy are always so contrived. "Dystopian futures", "enemies trying to ruin lives" etc. etc. It never resonates with me. I think what the author is trying to say is that if you live an open life with few secrets, then your life will be less stressful. He's encouraging us to really reevaluate what we keep secret b/c when you sit down to think about it, it's most likely all in your head.

If you don't have any of that to worry about -- no regrets, no past mistakes -- that's great for you. That might be why the thought of someone having access to your "secrets" seems so contrived. But what about someone with mental health problems? Depression or anxiety? A past drug addiction, or merely alcoholism? A criminal record? How about something as "innocuous" as a drunken one night stand while in a committed r…

In an open society, I would expect society people view toward this issue will change as well. If everybody know my things and I know everybody things, hopefully stigma or negative impact an toward the issue mentioned will be less.
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