Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC • Hacker News Board

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#31

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 2:24 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #21

pg wrote: post #8

Another thing I'd ask people not to do is write to us asking for the details of why they weren't invited. We explain in the YC FAQ that we won't, but every cycle people deluge us with emails anyway. It's not because we're being secretive that we don't answer these emails. The reason is that there generally are no details to give. Usually when we don't invite a group for interviews, it's not because there was some gla…

This 'rejection without a stated reason' is common practice - and poor practice wherever it may be found, ie recruitment, vc, men/women relationships, record companies and many places else. The ease by which even minimal feedback can be given which can lead to great benefit to the recipient is obvious, and therefore should be embraced. There may be risks that the recipient makes some kind of rebuttal and wastes time,…

[deleted]

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#32

Post by sbraford » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 2:29 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #25

andreyf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt a little disappointed also, but Paul's point above makes sense: The reason is that there generally are no details to give. Usually when we don't invite a group for interviews, it's not because there was some glaring flaw in the application, but simply because nothing in it jumped out at us.

I would expect that in a more perfect world PG (or an equivalent) would also say "We also like to give feedback and point out the things that would have made us more interested had it been included."

The common refrain from VCs, book publishers -- anyone who gets large volumes of submissions and can only select a tiny minority is:

* even attempting to respond (however briefly) to the deluge of requests would overwhelm us to the point that we could no longer focus on running the core business

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#33

Post by shiro » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 2:37 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #21

pg wrote: post #8

Another thing I'd ask people not to do is write to us asking for the details of why they weren't invited. We explain in the YC FAQ that we won't, but every cycle people deluge us with emails anyway. It's not because we're being secretive that we don't answer these emails. The reason is that there generally are no details to give. Usually when we don't invite a group for interviews, it's not because there was some gla…

This 'rejection without a stated reason' is common practice - and poor practice wherever it may be found, ie recruitment, vc, men/women relationships, record companies and many places else. The ease by which even minimal feedback can be given which can lead to great benefit to the recipient is obvious, and therefore should be embraced. There may be risks that the recipient makes some kind of rebuttal and wastes time,…

This is not particulary related to YC or startup, but a general advice.

I've been, and still occasionally am, in both sides---sometimes in a position of selecting people, and more likely, in a position being selected. And I can assert the observation PG stated somewhere in one of his essays---in almost all circumstances there are a few stand-outs, a few obvious inferiors, and large number of the rest in the middle ground. Unless you're in either extremes, whether you pass or fail largely depends on small bits of random factors. And it doesn't help whether you know which of those small factors you missed. Because in highly competitive fields, you have to get into the few stand-outs eventually. Don't take the real life tests as if they are school exams where you can earn several points here and there to cover up some minus points elsewhere. You can tell excellent work from not-so-great work, can't you? Just aim at excellent work. If you think your work is less than excellent, then that's the reason you're rejected. If you think you did an excellent work and still rejected, then they are wrong.

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#34

Post by fleddermaus » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 2:42 AM UTC

Whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't, you are right. --attributed to Henry Ford.

Entrepreneurs make it because they choose to, not because someone gives them the opportunity. The opportunity is always there, the question is whether or not you choose to make it happen. I've been reading "founders at work" and it surprises me that their opportunities were where they least expected it.

So, cheer up and keep dreaming!

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#35

Post by neuro » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 2:54 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #28

adrianwaj wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 'rejection without a stated reason' is common practice - and poor practice wherever it may be found, ie recruitment, vc, men/women relationships, record companies and many places else. The ease by which even minimal feedback can be given which can lead to great benefit to the recipient is obvious, and therefore should be embraced. There may be risks that the recipient makes some kind of rebuttal and wastes time,…

poor practice wherever it may be found Sure you want to commit to that blanket statement? Do you expect every woman in every room you walk into to stop and think about why you didn't draw her attention, and then come and tell you?

so, are you suggesting canidates demo in spandex?

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#36

Post by adrianwaj » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 5:02 AM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #30

adrianwaj wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 'rejection without a stated reason' is common practice - and poor practice wherever it may be found, ie recruitment, vc, men/women relationships, record companies and many places else. The ease by which even minimal feedback can be given which can lead to great benefit to the recipient is obvious, and therefore should be embraced. There may be risks that the recipient makes some kind of rebuttal and wastes time,…

Not trying to pile on, but I'm curious to what sort of feedback "nothing in there really caught our eye" would engender. A request for YC to look more closely? I mean, at some point these are qualitative measurements. Even if you had absolute knowledge, it wouldn't make things any better. Did the reviewer have a bad burrito for lunch? Is your name Bob and the reviewer unconsciously hates all people named Bob? Was the…

A great VC can say more than just 'no' but can pinpoint exactly why they said no. If it is a gut feeling then they should be able to elaborate on that gut feeling.

I got comments once from judges in a startup competition and they were harsh, and offered no imaginative answers.

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#37

Post by adrianwaj » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 5:52 AM UTC

sbraford wrote: post #32

adrianwaj wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect that in a more perfect world PG (or an equivalent) would also say "We also like to give feedback and point out the things that would have made us more interested had it been included."

The common refrain from VCs, book publishers -- anyone who gets large volumes of submissions and can only select a tiny minority is: * even attempting to respond (however briefly) to the deluge of requests would overwhelm us to the point that we could no longer focus on running the core business

But, if all publishers gave feedback then the 'poor' authors would each save themselves from submitting to multiple publishers, and the 'poor' publishers deluged with submissions would instead have more refined manuscripts to evaluate and in lesser numbers. Thus, a little feedback can go a long way. This is because ideally manuscripts would improve only after a few submissions due to the feedback given and then they would either be accepted for publishing, referred to a more appropriate publisher, or shelved due to uninterested publishers.

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#38

Post by adrianwaj » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 7:15 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #28

adrianwaj wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 'rejection without a stated reason' is common practice - and poor practice wherever it may be found, ie recruitment, vc, men/women relationships, record companies and many places else. The ease by which even minimal feedback can be given which can lead to great benefit to the recipient is obvious, and therefore should be embraced. There may be risks that the recipient makes some kind of rebuttal and wastes time,…

poor practice wherever it may be found Sure you want to commit to that blanket statement? Do you expect every woman in every room you walk into to stop and think about why you didn't draw her attention, and then come and tell you?

It's a generalized statement about a principle. See my remark below (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=68962) about publishers/authors.

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#39

Post by shiro » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 7:30 AM UTC

adrianwaj wrote: post #36

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trying to pile on, but I'm curious to what sort of feedback "nothing in there really caught our eye" would engender. A request for YC to look more closely? I mean, at some point these are qualitative measurements. Even if you had absolute knowledge, it wouldn't make things any better. Did the reviewer have a bad burrito for lunch? Is your name Bob and the reviewer unconsciously hates all people named Bob? Was the…

A great VC can say more than just 'no' but can pinpoint exactly why they said no. If it is a gut feeling then they should be able to elaborate on that gut feeling. I got comments once from judges in a startup competition and they were harsh, and offered no imaginative answers.

Ok, don't confuse the cases where giving feedback benefits both parties and where it doesn't.

In most selections that draws a "pass or fail" line among applicants, giving feedback benefits neither. I explained the reason in my comment in this tree ( http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=68895 ). I assume whether you're called back for YC interview or not is this kind.

What I didn't explain is that there are other cases; where "the few stand-outs" compete and ultimately the winner is chosen. If you couldn't win because of your shortcomings (that is, you would've won if you hadn't had them), then you should know what dragged you. But you don't need to worry; in such cases, somebody will tell you the reason you couldn't win. Most likely, in such circumstances, the officials make comments on each candidates. Even if there's no official comments, sombody inside will eventually tell you that you were so close.

Of course anybody who wants to improve himself needs feedback. But when you're in the first kind of selection and can't make it, those who made selection are wrong person to ask feedback.

Re: Some things to do (and not do) if you aren't invited to interview with YC

#40

Post by nailer » Wed, Oct 17, 2007, 7:39 AM UTC

pg wrote: post #28

adrianwaj wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This 'rejection without a stated reason' is common practice - and poor practice wherever it may be found, ie recruitment, vc, men/women relationships, record companies and many places else. The ease by which even minimal feedback can be given which can lead to great benefit to the recipient is obvious, and therefore should be embraced. There may be risks that the recipient makes some kind of rebuttal and wastes time,…

poor practice wherever it may be found Sure you want to commit to that blanket statement? Do you expect every woman in every room you walk into to stop and think about why you didn't draw her attention, and then come and tell you?

I can't speak for adrianwaj, but here's my approach:

In general, I'm not seeking sexual interest from every woman in the room. In fact, there's quite a few I'm specifically seeking to avoid.

For those I am interested in, I make every effort to look good and be an engaging, interesting person. I'm fit, I dress well, I'm good looking and can engage strangers in conversation easily, and usually make them laugh.

If a woman I'm interested in still isn't interested in me after I've engaged her (and provided I'm still interested in her after the conversing with her) I ask myself why. If I don't know the answer, I think it's quite reasonable to politely ask her.

Conversely, though, I'm prepared to accept her reasons why. For example, she might believe that I'm rough, but even if I know this not to be the case, I know there's a reason for this perception.

Or she might prefer something I'm not willing to be - eg, really big guys - I'm tall and thin and can't be bothered spending more than a few days at the gym. Fair enough, it would have never worked out.

But sometimes I find out something that's really valuable, and I can take that and work on it. I have to be in a frame of mind that makes her comfortable to be honest and direct.

Unfortunately, there's probably a lot of guys who don't realize there's a reason behind her perception, or who would argue about why they're they the right guy. These guys make it hard for girls to be honest for those of us who are interested in the basis for a perception, rather using it as a pretext to continuing to attempt to be accepted.

These also have no idea how many other great looking, witty girls there are, and put too much value on one opinion.

Everything above is applicable to YCombinator.