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The Criminalization of Everyday Life

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Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#261

Post by unclebucknasty »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #199
unclebucknasty wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully rational or merely fully informed? That is, a rational voter must first be an informed voter. But, there is a machine dedicated to disinformation . In the aftermath of Citizens United , we are seeing the rise of dark money to the point where billion dollar campaigns are imminent. Combine that with the consolidation of media, the fall of investigative journalism, and a 24 hour news cycle which has devolved news…

And it is possible to see "why" all these things have been happening once you understand that the country has been getting poorer and poorer for some time and more and more in debt. In other words, the USA in an Empire in decline. Each and every aspect of life in the US is a little bit worse every year. This has been a process since I believe 1973 when US went out of the gold standard. Rich nations, creditor nations,…

>The solution is bankruptcy, to be able to start over from scratch.

I believe it has more to do with the unfettered rise of the military-industrial complex (including banking/finance), which has siezed near complete control of our political machinery. We have become a corporate state, wherein politicians are fully purchasable and policy is made for a narrow set of interests vs. for the people.

If this is not changed, then these same powers will sieze control again after a bankruptcy reset.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#262

Post by JackFr »

afterburner wrote: post #223
JackFr wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough -- 'cabal' was my loaded word. I have no problem with Fabulous Fab going to jail, although I don't thick it's quite as cut-and-dried as you imagine. I'm familiar with the Libor scandal. But in both those cases particular people did specific things which were actionable.

How many have gone to jail over these actionable items?

AFAIK Fab has yet to be sentenced, and note that as a foreign national, he's not eligible for the country club prisons.

At the same time, the you don't see prosecutors going after the hundreds of thousands who lied to obtain mortgages they would otherwise not have qualified for. That is the real irony of the comprehensive settlement of the investment banks -- the banks are paying billions in fines because of borrowers misrepresenting themselves.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#263

Post by XorNot »

falcolas wrote: post #243
scarecrowbob wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But it seems like not the useful insight given a state the clearly has asymetrically greater power than the populace?" Is your assumption true? That is, leaving aside the fact that the police are ostensibly part of the populace, how would some police and a single APC pacify even a couple of blocks of citizens without the cooperation of those citizens? Personally, and I realize that this is opinion, I do not believe…

> how would some police and a single APC pacify even a couple of blocks of citizens without the cooperation of those citizens? Assuming that the police have no restriction in the use of force, it would be very simple for them to pacify a rather large area with an APC and Police. All they have to do is kill a few people who are out of line, and the rest will cower. No single or small group of citizens in the US really…

...and this is where you lose everyone. There's a gulf of difference between technical capability and legal right.

Campus police don't "just kill a few people".

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#264

Post by XorNot »

LekkoscPiwa wrote: post #196
jseliger wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment Foucault's style is (possibly deliberately) obtuse, and his knowledge of history dubious at best, per Keith Windschuttle's book The Killing of History : http://www.amazon.com/The-Killing-History-Theorists-Murderin... . It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance Because it's easy, because most of the time it doesn't affect us, and because it's h…

So when in 1960s students revolted against the War in Vietnam, an average American knew all those things? I don't think so. I'd rather draw parallel to Ancient Rome and its citizens. As long as there were "Games" in town and bread for free nobody cared. Once the Rome was on fire they woke up. For some time. The situation is hopeless. The only solution is when US runs out of money. Goes bankrupt. Which is quite possib…

> I'd rather draw parallel to Ancient Rome and its citizens. As long as there were "Games" in town and bread for free nobody cared. Once the Rome was on fire they woke up. For some time.

This is not why the Roman empire collapsed. In fact the term "collapse" itself implies some weird sudden event, rather then a gradual evolution over the course of hundreds of years into the various entities which became the forerunners of nation-states today.

The Byzantine empire - east Rome - has no definitive end, for example.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#265

Post by XorNot »

AJ007 wrote: post #164
dmix wrote: post #61

I wish people would move beyond 1984 and quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment [1]. There is a much deeper-rooted problem in society than mass surveillance or militarization of police. It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance. We accept and welcome our controllers. Foucault wrote about the effects of prisoner mindset in society in the 1960-70s. Our subjugation and tolerance to au…

Why = Edward Bernays. Manipulation of public opinion. Turning two opposed groups in to supporting your agenda without either admitting it. This is not an accident, but a practiced and studied science. The American right represented something totally different in the 1990s. So much so that when September 11th occurred, for a brief moment some speculated it could be right-wing terrorists. The George W Bush administrati…

"Organizing for Action" original and primary purpose was to get Barack Obama elected. It's original name was "Obama for America".

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#266

Post by XorNot »

blah32497 wrote: post #240
peterashford wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's rather more that the history of states turning fascist shows that the turn is usually proceeded by the state acquiring extraordinary powers on the basis that "insert-bogeyman-here" is out to get us (see Italy, Spain, Germany for past exemplars) and that current citizens would rather be vigilant and ensure that we don't have a fascist future than sit back and allow the possibility that it might occur. "Th…

(I'm gunna respond even though I'm getting downvoted b/c hopefully someone gets something out of this.. but keep it coming! =) ) There is nothing inherently evil in surveillance. In and of itself it's a neutral thing. It's what you do with it that is evil or good. First I'd say that I don't really see how the NAZIs gain power because of surveillance. Hitler didn't seize power because the SA had some intricate intelli…

There's a certain hilarity in the fact that anyone who doesn't toe the party line in comments on articles like these on HN gets mass-downvoted. Dissent must be punished and all that.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#267

Post by qq66 »

falcolas wrote: post #243
scarecrowbob wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"But it seems like not the useful insight given a state the clearly has asymetrically greater power than the populace?" Is your assumption true? That is, leaving aside the fact that the police are ostensibly part of the populace, how would some police and a single APC pacify even a couple of blocks of citizens without the cooperation of those citizens? Personally, and I realize that this is opinion, I do not believe…

> how would some police and a single APC pacify even a couple of blocks of citizens without the cooperation of those citizens? Assuming that the police have no restriction in the use of force, it would be very simple for them to pacify a rather large area with an APC and Police. All they have to do is kill a few people who are out of line, and the rest will cower. No single or small group of citizens in the US really…

The recent regime changes termed "Arab Spring" provide some evidence that killing some of the population can sometimes further inflame the populate rather than intimidating them.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#268

Post by XorNot »

baddox wrote: post #217
chill1 wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who do you vote for? I vote.. But it doesn't seem to do anything. We have an illusion of choice in this country when it comes to anything that matters. Political parties, banks, oil/gas companies, electricity/natural gas/telecom/internet providers; everything that is critical to living a modern life, we have a handful of choices - sometimes just one. Shampoos, tooth paste, tomato sauce, everything else that doesn't r…

I do not vote.

You're getting exactly as much as you asked for then.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#269

Post by XorNot »

iambateman wrote: post #32

If every police station in the country is equipped with military-grade weapons and vehicles, what happens in the event of despotic leadership? Suppose someone rises to power with little regard for legislative oversight and activates the sleeping military at home. It might start with a real (or faked) terror event coordinated across several major cities. It wouldn't take much at all, 5-10 cities, and suddenly: 1. Inte…

In Iraq you can buy an AK-47 for about the price of a pack of cigarrettes. RPGs, C-4, probably a ton of looted US militay hardware from the Pakistani border as well. The populace did not, and does not, want for access to heavy duty ordnance.

Mysteriously, this didn't stop Saddam Hussein ruling for decades.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#270

Post by nickff »

XorNot wrote: post #269
iambateman wrote: post #32

If every police station in the country is equipped with military-grade weapons and vehicles, what happens in the event of despotic leadership? Suppose someone rises to power with little regard for legislative oversight and activates the sleeping military at home. It might start with a real (or faked) terror event coordinated across several major cities. It wouldn't take much at all, 5-10 cities, and suddenly: 1. Inte…

In Iraq you can buy an AK-47 for about the price of a pack of cigarrettes. RPGs, C-4, probably a ton of looted US militay hardware from the Pakistani border as well. The populace did not, and does not, want for access to heavy duty ordnance. Mysteriously, this didn't stop Saddam Hussein ruling for decades.

I would not expect that the current ability to purchase weapons could impact past events (, unless the Iraquis have access to US army surplus time machines as well).

It should also be noted that most discriminatory and tyrannical regimes selectively arm or disarm segments of their populations, so as to effect greater control and stability. If one quickly examines the "Jim Crow" laws of the southern US states, it is easy to find many which were targeted at disarming the black population and others (, making the minorities vulnerable to lynching).

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