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The Criminalization of Everyday Life

tomdispatch.com

231–240 of 347 posts

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#231

I can't say I'm exactly surprised. If you ran a police department, you're not about to turn down a free tank -- I mean, how cool is that, toys for the boys?!?! What's bothersome is that a police department is allowed to do this. That DoD rules don't prohibit selling/giving military equipment to police departments. That state legislatures don't prohibit it. A police department, like any organization, is always going t…

Whats wrong with a police department having a tank? I'd say it's a waste of money, but if it's completely free there's no downside.

Aside from them being an aggressive display of power (even Russia uses them only for riots), they are very expensive!

The military spends a massive amount of money for maintenance - now the police can do that, too! Very cool, except you pay for it and they'll need more money.

APCs use a lot more fuel, have more expensive parts and need special training to operate = more money from the local budget (= more taxes).

Next thing, they'll be buying jets and drones for $10 each and spending millions on their maintenance.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#232
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. We've had something like that in Eastern Europe during the communist era.

"There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." (From Atlas Shrugged -- Damn, it's bad when I of all people am quoting Ayn Rand).

What's wrong with Ayn Rand?

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#233
post #87

This is AMAZING ! We're getting closer and closer to a cyberpunk society (unfortunately, authoritarianism is necessary, but not sufficient for this). Soon it'll be like Escape From L.A. or Snow Crash or Neuromancer ! I can't wait to stroll down the streets of Chiba like Case. I can't wait to hack around in the Metaverse like Hiro. I can't wait to explore the underbelly of prison-islands like Snake. We just need a bit…

LOL. I like Gibson, technology, and stuff too, but that's not a reason to be stoked about authoritarianism.

Anyway you are probably kidding.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#234
post #60

One of the underpinnings of the U.S. Constitution is the Bill Of Rights, one of which states "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." People go bouncing off the wall around this issue as if it were one having solely to do with owning guns, but the real purpose is arranging the real power in the government. The p…

Thank you for the patient post. People will probably despise me for this, but why don't we have compulsory military duty in the U.S. like other countries? It would give people some discipline. It would discourage us from acting arrogant, "lol! we should bomb them!" It would give people some skills. If it was equally applied, no one would have any disadvantage. It would make people feel much more secure, without deleg…

Jesus, no it would not!

It would lead to the US military becoming way too large, and given the prowess in media propaganda, you'll get tens of millions of people with a highly militaristic mindset with nothing to do - think current soldier worshipping x10.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#235
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satan's Little Helper? The country that seems to simply enacts laws and legislation that just mirror the US so they look like good little friends? The country that assists the NSA as needed? That Canada?

The general attitude, and the implications of everyone having health care, are far better. The police in general have a far friendlier disposition. It's not all about authority and the "listen to me I'm the coach/sergeant" sports-talk/military-talk mentality. There is also no real race issue the way African Americans experience in the US (a systematic, paranoid, aggressive marginalization of a large section of societ…

We have major race issues with Natives, nobody wants to talk about it though.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#236

Here's what I don't understand: what is the ultimate goal of this newfound desire to police everything? The obvious answer is control over people en mass, but say that happens...then what? Articles like this (which I'm glad are being written) point out the flaws and injustice in the system, but don't discuss the presumed results "those in control" are looking to achieve by manipulating it. From what I understand, the…

We live in an era of delicate balance between global overpopulation and resource depletion. We have exceeded the carrying capacity of the planet, we are at peak supply rates for oil and other essential resources. We're rendering things less habitable and global climate change - coupled with water table depletion and topsoil burnout - threatens to crash food crops in some key regions. It's not a conspiracy. People who…

Thanks for the response. Fairly inline with what I thought. Next question, how to prepare? Is it futile to make an effort to protect myself and those around me, or is such a thing feasible (I imagine this would require a huge edit to lifestyle)?

I don't want to be "that guy" but I also don't want to be caught in the headlights if shit hits the fan (which it seems is inevitable). Anything to study to guide my thinking without going full-on bomb shelter?

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#237
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satan's Little Helper? The country that seems to simply enacts laws and legislation that just mirror the US so they look like good little friends? The country that assists the NSA as needed? That Canada?

The general attitude, and the implications of everyone having health care, are far better. The police in general have a far friendlier disposition. It's not all about authority and the "listen to me I'm the coach/sergeant" sports-talk/military-talk mentality. There is also no real race issue the way African Americans experience in the US (a systematic, paranoid, aggressive marginalization of a large section of societ…

I don't know where in Canada you've lived, but there is plenty of that in Toronto, and Calgary, especially dealing with the natives. I'll bet Montreal and Vancouver aren't must different.

There was no culture shock moving from Canada to the US.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#238

Surprised this didn't get any comments. It's a good reason to leave (or not move to) the US, or increasingly, the UK.

Do you think it is better anywhere?

Well, I can tell you for sure that most of Europe (Spain, France, Germany, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Czech Republic, Italy, Austria, probably more) at least as it is now, is great for raising kids and living a normal life without a constant fear of the police in the back of your head.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#239
post #233
post #87

This is AMAZING ! We're getting closer and closer to a cyberpunk society (unfortunately, authoritarianism is necessary, but not sufficient for this). Soon it'll be like Escape From L.A. or Snow Crash or Neuromancer ! I can't wait to stroll down the streets of Chiba like Case. I can't wait to hack around in the Metaverse like Hiro. I can't wait to explore the underbelly of prison-islands like Snake. We just need a bit…

LOL. I like Gibson, technology, and stuff too, but that's not a reason to be stoked about authoritarianism. Anyway you are probably kidding.

> Anyway you are probably kidding.

Yep! Well, mostly. I'd say 95%.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like last year they passed the evil-fascist-police bill that allows the cops to buy tanks. This is all happening within the preexisting legal framework. (The Patriot Act has been around for already 12 years) There has been no significant expansion of the power of the state over the past decade. If you think the existing framework is flawed (and I would strongly agree), then definitely fight against it. Vote…

I think it's rather more that the history of states turning fascist shows that the turn is usually proceeded by the state acquiring extraordinary powers on the basis that "insert-bogeyman-here" is out to get us (see Italy, Spain, Germany for past exemplars) and that current citizens would rather be vigilant and ensure that we don't have a fascist future than sit back and allow the possibility that it might occur. "Th…

(I'm gunna respond even though I'm getting downvoted b/c hopefully someone gets something out of this.. but keep it coming! =) )

There is nothing inherently evil in surveillance. In and of itself it's a neutral thing. It's what you do with it that is evil or good.

First I'd say that I don't really see how the NAZIs gain power because of surveillance. Hitler didn't seize power because the SA had some intricate intelligence apparatus. Nor was it the case for the the fascists in Italy, nor Spain. I would argue it was for them simply a tool for the consolidation of power and their fight against subversion.

Just like - in la-la land - if the US government were to turn evil, they would use surveillance to oppress the people. But at that point it's "too-late". The oppression comes first, and then the surveillance to back it up.

"I think it's rather more that the history of states turning fascist..."

I think maybe the larger issues is that the "cyclicality" of history is really more about people seeing patterns where there are none (and historians justifying their jobs). Virtually all the examples we return too are from the beginning of the 20th century. Somehow because of how horrible WW2 was we feel that this may happen again if we aren't careful.

But in reality, history doesn't really "repeat itself" as the old says goes. The NAZI arose during a period of extreme nationalism. There is no reason to believe that this will necessarily happen again. For instance it didn't happen before the end of the 19th century since nationalism is a relatively new concept. And we don't for examples anticipate the return of communism, or disco.

I think at this point in our cultural evolution a return to tyranny is simply impossible. We have so much precedent of the success of democracy and our thinking on human rights has evolved to a point where this is simply unsustainable

to close with some data:

http://thediplomat.com/2013/02/13/5-ways-china-could-become-....

"Statistical analysis shows that authoritarian regimes become progressively more unstable (and democratic transitions more likely) once income rises above $1,000 (PPP) per capita. When per capita income goes above $4,000 (PPP), the likelihood of democratic transitions increases more dramatically. Few authoritarian regimes, unless they rule in oil-producing countries, can survive once per capita income hits more than $6,000 (PPP)."

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