The Criminalization of Everyday Life • Hacker News Board

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#211

Post by chill1 » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:29 AM UTC

baddox wrote: post #35

crazygringo wrote: post #22

I can't say I'm exactly surprised. If you ran a police department, you're not about to turn down a free tank -- I mean, how cool is that, toys for the boys?!?! What's bothersome is that a police department is allowed to do this. That DoD rules don't prohibit selling/giving military equipment to police departments. That state legislatures don't prohibit it. A police department, like any organization, is always going t…

> What's bothersome is that a police department is allowed to do this. Well, that's not too surprising. Every party along the chain that has the power to say Yes or No, from the weapon manufacturers, to the US legislature awarding funding, to the DoD, to the state legislatures, to the local police departments, have an obvious incentive to say Yes. The party that has the incentive to say No is the civilian population,…

Who do you vote for? I vote.. But it doesn't seem to do anything. We have an illusion of choice in this country when it comes to anything that matters. Political parties, banks, oil/gas companies, electricity/natural gas/telecom/internet providers; everything that is critical to living a modern life, we have a handful of choices - sometimes just one. Shampoos, tooth paste, tomato sauce, everything else that doesn't really matter; we've got dozens or hundreds of choices.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#212

Post by CalRobert » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:35 AM UTC

ufmace wrote: post #93

CalRobert wrote: post #2

Surprised this didn't get any comments. It's a good reason to leave (or not move to) the US, or increasingly, the UK.

What's funny to me about the suggestion to move is that the very people who have the greatest ability to actually move to another country - upper-middle class people with college degrees - are the ones least affected by these issues.

That's true, but I was profoundly disturbed by the direction the country was going and more directly at the thought that my taxes were supporting it (along with the military industrial complex, policies enabling substantial environmental destruction, etc.). My friends probably think my response is rather extreme but I prefer that my taxes go towards pensions, health, and education (and, yes, even the dole), instead of the military.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#213

Post by Perceval » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:47 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #165

pistle wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foucault is SmallTalk. Tangentially inspirational, but mostly useless in modern practice. Deleuze's postscript... "metastable states coexisting in one and the same, like a universal system of deformation." That's your counter-argument?

> Foucault is SmallTalk. Tangentially inspirational, but mostly useless in modern practice. I don't think you can categorize a philosopher/historian in such crude terms. For one, this pressuposes that there's some "modern practice" of history, which makes it incompatible or difficult for practical reasons to use Foucault's theory anymore. That's not the case in the least -- modern academic discourse in such matters r…

Calling Deleuze lucid is the opposite of the truth: his use of language is obfuscatory and arcane.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#214

Post by jacalata » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:48 AM UTC

jseliger wrote: post #114

dmix wrote: post #61

I wish people would move beyond 1984 and quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment [1]. There is a much deeper-rooted problem in society than mass surveillance or militarization of police. It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance. We accept and welcome our controllers. Foucault wrote about the effects of prisoner mindset in society in the 1960-70s. Our subjugation and tolerance to au…

quote more Foucault's Discipline & Punishment Foucault's style is (possibly deliberately) obtuse, and his knowledge of history dubious at best, per Keith Windschuttle's book The Killing of History : http://www.amazon.com/The-Killing-History-Theorists-Murderin... . It's the question of why we all let this happen without any resistance Because it's easy, because most of the time it doesn't affect us, and because it's h…

Keith Windschuttle is among the last people I'd trust to assess anybody's knowledge of history. He is most well known for arguing that the Australian Stolen Generations are made up, and that the enlightened nature of white European settlers in Australia in the 1700/1800s makes it virtually impossible for them to have treated Aboriginals as poorly as is generally accepted - outright accusing most historians he's ever mentioned of being liars or political patsies. Saying that other people don't know anything about history is pretty much his default stance.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#215

Post by steveklabnik » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:49 AM UTC

Perceval wrote: post #213

coldtea wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Foucault is SmallTalk. Tangentially inspirational, but mostly useless in modern practice. I don't think you can categorize a philosopher/historian in such crude terms. For one, this pressuposes that there's some "modern practice" of history, which makes it incompatible or difficult for practical reasons to use Foucault's theory anymore. That's not the case in the least -- modern academic discourse in such matters r…

Calling Deleuze lucid is the opposite of the truth: his use of language is obfuscatory and arcane.

Deleuze by himself is actually very straightforward, I bet you're speaking of his work with Guattari.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#216

Post by steveklabnik » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:51 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #207

eseehausen wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort cherry-picking of "obtuse" quotes to attack high-level theory is pretty absurd. It's equivalent to somebody from the humanities putting down this formula: Y = λf.(λx.f (x x)) (λx.f (x x)) and saying "I have difficulty understanding this, ergo computer science is absurd nonsense."

And if "theory" or whatever the fuck you English majors call it were mathematically rigorous you'd have a point.

... and a critique of that style of 'rigor' is a large part of 'whatever the fuck' they're talking about.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#217

Post by baddox » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:51 AM UTC

chill1 wrote: post #211

baddox wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's bothersome is that a police department is allowed to do this. Well, that's not too surprising. Every party along the chain that has the power to say Yes or No, from the weapon manufacturers, to the US legislature awarding funding, to the DoD, to the state legislatures, to the local police departments, have an obvious incentive to say Yes. The party that has the incentive to say No is the civilian population,…

Who do you vote for? I vote.. But it doesn't seem to do anything. We have an illusion of choice in this country when it comes to anything that matters. Political parties, banks, oil/gas companies, electricity/natural gas/telecom/internet providers; everything that is critical to living a modern life, we have a handful of choices - sometimes just one. Shampoos, tooth paste, tomato sauce, everything else that doesn't r…

I do not vote.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#218

Post by jedmeyers » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:53 AM UTC

memracom wrote: post #153

jedmeyers wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The is no "the" in Ukraine. And there is no point in comparing Ukraine to the US. If you think that people in Ukraine are contemplating change you have to read up more on it. Or maybe visit the country sometimes to see for yourself how wrong you are.

I have been to the Ukraine over a dozen times. Ukraine is doing more than just contemplating change. Everyone there is demanding change and is unhappy with all elected politicians no matter what party they are from. The main problem is that Ukraine is not sure what kind of change it wants. And it doesn't understand the steps to take to get change. And too many Ukrainians want a magical solution that will sweep the pr…

There is no "the" in "Ukraine".

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#219

Post by Daniel_Newby » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 12:55 AM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #201

a_c_s wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the difference between using militarized police and actual military? If in the hands of a despot one is a problem, then so is the other. So I don't see how weaponizing the police changes this equation. (Some other commenters suggest the police is more loyal to the local citizenry, in which case weaponizing the police could be seen as providing a counterbalancing armed force that could defend against a militar…

If I had to generalize about the military and the police, I'd have a lot more fear for police. The veterans I've known by and large hate the government, which is ironic. But cops have zero compunction against violently attacking the people.

Especially because the police are not professional soldiers. They might think that that APC of theirs makes them invulnerable and pull some crazy shit. Actual soldiers with one APC would live in dread of rednecks with hunting rifles.

Re: The Criminalization of Everyday Life

#220

Post by CalRobert » Wed, Dec 11, 2013, 1:04 AM UTC

tokenadult wrote: post #86

afterburner wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of Western countries that are less screwed up than the US.

For example? What's involved for a citizen of the United States who would like to settle in one of those countries permanently?

Get a job, get a green card, wait five years, get your citizenship.

That first step is a challenge but if you're the type who reads Hacker News you're better off than most. My green card application for Ireland was approved yesterday. (Yes yes Ireland has numerous flaws - I still vastly prefer life here).