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Cars Kill Cities

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101–110 of 223 posts

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may not be unreasonable if the overhead to rent is high. It's coming down, though I have no idea what ranges are "too high" or where things currently stand relative to that.

It's not even the monetary cost of renting, it's the time cost. If I have a pickup truck the time cost for me to buy something off of CL is driving there, inspecting it and then buying it. Done. If I have to rent a pickup to transport it back then I've got two choices. I can either rent the vehicle prior to looking at the item or after I decide to buy it for sure. If I always-rent then I'll kill at least 2hrs per CL…

For the price delta between my Yaris and a gigantic 4x4 crew cab pickup truck, including capital cost, interest, insurance, gas, maint, tires, if I buy a small car I'll never, ever have to buy anything used again off craigslist.

This is stereotypical penny wise pound foolish behavior. WRT to OP's relative hauling some plywood occasionally, for the price difference between a commuter car and a monster truck he could find a young man, pay his living expenses while he completes a complete carpentry apprenticeship, and pay the young man for some materials, and the young-ish journeyman could come out and do all the work for him as a thank you.

Another way to put it is the price differential is about 3x what I paid for a new roof on my house... all to haul some plywood...

When I put in a patio I had a flatbed truck deliver two pallets of bricks, two pallets of gravel and a pallet of sand bags. The delivery fee was roughly the delta between one months payment for a car vs a truck. You'd be surprised how much labor you can get out of a truck driver for $200 or $300 or so, and he was probably happy with me because the job only took him maybe 2-3 hours total.

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High fixed costs and economies of scale. Cars are high fixed cost capital goods. A taxi will be driven far more over the course of its lifetime than a personal car, so the fixed cost per mile is much lower. Also, economies of scale make purchases and maintenance and repair cheaper. These are two reasons to believe taxis should be cheaper than personal ownership. Finally, let me point to airplanes. It makes far more s…

>Cars are analogous. No they aren't. Many people need a car every day. Almost nobody needs a plane every day.

Most people are in a situation where they're forced to use a car every day. This situation could be resolved through smarter planning, better urban design, and alternative methods of transportation.

Two hundred years ago nobody needed a car because it didn't exist. Now people need it because parts of society are so entangled with it that it's nearly impossible to pull them apart.

If somehow planes had wrangled their way into our lifestyle the same way, then yes, people would need a plane every day. How else would they get home to their chalet in an inaccessible part the woods six hundred miles from the office at the end of a work-day?

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#103
post #92
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would subsist merely on great clouds of smug, rainbow baths, meditation, and unicorn droppings. The rest of us, of course, will drive a car.

Wow, wheres the argument? I guess you are a very rational, thoughtful person compared to naive hippies like me, so why don't you use your skills?

OK I admit I didn't answer anything. They'd probably bum rides off their friends with cars, just like I did as a kid. Which doesn't scale and is very inconvenient and economically devastating.

There are some interesting real estate issues such that you'd essentially be implementing feudalism where a peasant comes with the land and cannot leave it for other employment. Or the parasitic FIRE sector would have to back off a bit so housing is more of a commodity. Either way isn't happening without much unhappiness.

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#104
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's why we should make new cities with the infrastructure to support a population with zero cars allowed. And make that city an awesome place to live.

As a small business owner who sells a physical good, statements like this scare the hell out of me. You have no idea the kind of monopolization and losses of freedom implementing ideas like this would entail. Cars are democratic. They are a cheap, scaleable way of solving the problem of transportation. Kill cars, and you will destroy a lot of entrepreneurship in things that really matter. You will also be hurting tho…

I don't think we should kill cars. At least not until there is something better to replace them.

You may want a car to get to other cities. But to walk around within the city with no car emissions? No cars zooming by everywhere? With an excellent mass transportation, even one with privacy for its users? I would give up a lot to live in a place like that.

cars are not democratic. They restrict freedom. Just to be able to walk around everywhere within a small city without any cars driving by would a dream for me.

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#105
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The High Cost of Free Parking convince me that 800 pages is worth it (reviews so far haven't).

Try the lead essay from Cato Unbound and see what you think. [0] There are a few more good short Shoup pieces linked at the bottom of that page. I have some personal experience here. I have done training and volunteered as a community organizer and worked with my city council and planning department. I have organized neighborhood groups involved in planning. I have studied urban planning and urban form. Nothing helpe…

Thanks, I'll check that. While I got interested in urban design recently, TBH I fail to grasp all of the anti-automotive concepts that seem to get in fashion recently. Especially when I live in a place where I witness how it may go wrong. On a related note, tomorrow I'm going to "Brasilia, a day in February" as part of a doc festival we have going on around here, if you've studied urban planning you've probably heard a lot about this city, so just dropping in this title here in case you're interested (not that well known as, say, Urbanized and such).

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#106
Do people actually want to live in cities, how many of them? - (and whatever for?)

One narrative here goes, there are lots of cars, so it creates an unfriendly environment, so people have to live outside the city and have cars.

But that narrative doesn't make sense for how the cars got there in the first place.

Another narrative goes: cars enabled people to move about quickly, they enjoyed this. One manifestation of this ability was to escape from cities and still get to work. Thus carparks and reasonably fast roads.

#

Or maybe people just enjoyed moving about quickly even over relatively small distances and it snowballed

For example, I live about five miles away from where I used to work. I could spend 10 minutes walking to the nearest busstop, 15 minutes waiting for that bus, another 10-15 minutes getting to the busstop in town, another 10-15 minutes waiting for the next bus to work, another half hour or so while the bus drives there (takes longer because of stops).

Or I could just get in the car and be there in 16-20 minutes.

An hour and a half vs 16-20 minutes. And this isn't a bad place for public transport. Buses, on average, every 10-15 minutes is pretty good. It just adds up. Heck, given a couple of hours I could probably walk there.

It's far from clear that it makes sense, even under generalised utility, to agree with the author's desire to make cities better places to live at the potential cost to people who may prefer to live elsewhere and drive.

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#107
I'm genuinely curious: Here in germany we have car-sharing offers that allow you to pick up a car on the street, ride it to where you want to go and then leave it parked there in the larger cities. The fee is usually about half of the fee of a cab. Then there's the same for bicycles. The combination of public transport and car-sharing in berlin is awesome, at least in the city center: I go most ways by public transport and then grab a car or bike if I need to. If I really need to travel long distance by car, I get a rental and I'm coming out ahead financially, even if I throw in the occasional taxi ride because it's late and I'm lazy. From the posts here I get the impression that this doesn't exist in the US - and I can't imagine that.

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#108
I walked around Tokyo marveling at the infrastructure. Fully enclosed (or perhaps 3/4 enclosed) freeways that explode out of the ground, split off to surface streets, and arch up through the sky and around corners. Well-engineered, rubberized mounting systems and the enclosure mean you only heard the faintest hint of cars rocketing by at speed. Highways branching to high-capacity, multi-lane surface streets, which further branch into narrow neighborhood streets (similar to an alley in the US) meant that pedestrian traffic was quite safe, and generally well-respected.

By contrast, American cities have a couple of arterial freeways, a massive grid of wide-yet-low-capacity surface streets, and neighborhood streets that people speed through in an effort to shave seconds off their commute. And when they get to work, they park in huge parking lots, instead of stacked parking structures (ideally under the target building itself).

American transportation infrastructure is terrible.

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#109

If you're interested in this topic, Donald Shoup's The High Cost of Free Parking and Edward Glaeser's The Triumph of the City are both worth reading. The former explains how "free" parking isn't really free and how it distorts a lot of behavior, and the latter is about what cities are good for and how to build healthy cities in general. Personally, I wonder why people would want to own a car if they can avoid it: htt…

Why would you want to own a car if you could avoid it?

(correction applied)

Because I can go wherever I want, whenever I want, with my whole family (pets included), with a trunkful of cargo, as I see fit.

I keep a bunch of gear in my car which makes me pretty much independent. No way I'd be hauling "go camping on a moment's notice" stuff and other equipment everywhere on the bus. Nor would I have the basic equipment to fix the bus should it break down.

7 years ago, awaiting dinner sitting at the bar at Longhorns and halfway thru a margarita around 9PM, my wife suggested we go see a new litter of puppies from our dog's breeder. Called to ensure we could, and minutes later we were making the 1,000 mile drive there. Next morning little Crossley was part of the family.

Personal long-range transport is very freeing. Mass transit & communication devices may be convenient, but rely more on others than some of us are comfortable with.

Re: Cars Kill Cities

#110

If you're interested in this topic, Donald Shoup's The High Cost of Free Parking and Edward Glaeser's The Triumph of the City are both worth reading. The former explains how "free" parking isn't really free and how it distorts a lot of behavior, and the latter is about what cities are good for and how to build healthy cities in general. Personally, I wonder why people would want to own a car if they can avoid it: htt…

Lots of people don't want to live in a city.

For me, living in a city is a horrible existence. So living in the unspoilt countryside a car is pretty useful to get around.

A car is freedom. Do you really want to be completely dependent and beholden to some public transport system?

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